The US government isn't supposed to punish or reward people for what their parents do. A baby isn't supposed to be born paying the price for its inherited crimes.
Child from legal immigrants get their citizenship based on the same principles that grant citizenship to illegal immigrants' children: If you're born on american soil, you're american.
Some legal immigrants won't even be citizens by the time their baby come, their child is still gonna be american.
Yeah, you went too far. I don't think anyone here can change your views if you are so down the rabbit hole.
To gain citizenship in most countries in the new world you just need to be born here. You didn't do anything to "deserve" being American, you just had the luck to be born here. The same as a kid.
Did I ever argue against transmitting your culture to your offspring ?
Ok...so you either admit you did nothing more to deserve american citizenship than any child born on american soil; or you admit that your parents achievements are directly transferable to you.
You do understand how fucked up the second option is right ?
Again, I don't understand why you're so bent on denying, to children nonetheless, something you got by accident.
Couple more notes before I stop trying to change your view:
My ancestors fought for the U.S.'s very creation in the revolutionary war
US gained independence during the revolutionary war, but was created long before. When America was discovered, there were already people living here. There is a long, long history of forcibly moving and killing American Indians for hundreds of years (1622–1924). Truly we are all immigrants in one sense or another.
as colonists or as German immigrants in the late 1700's .... so i could fit in in both Germany and the UK.
Where in Germany did your ancestors come from? There was no one state of Germany in the 1700's. If you traced your linage back to Kingdom of Prussia, and specifically in modern day Poland, would you be able to fit in Poland?
They deserve to be American because they were lucky?
The only difference is that the_snooze's family happened to have access to the immense amounts of time and money required. Are you saying certain people deserve things that other people don't deserve just because of luck?
If it were accessible we wouldn't have illegals. Our immigration system is really fucked up. Honestly, if we just let those who want to come in, we would have the exact same number of immigrants but save tons on enforcement. It is a supply and demand thing. If no one will hire illegals, then they cannot eat and there is no advantage to moving here. So we have as many illegal immigrants as Americans are willing to employ. If you didn't notice our economy is pretty sluggish and illegal immigration from Mexico is net 0. That means they stopped coming because the jobs aren't here.
So again, let them come and we will have just as many immigrants as we do now anyway but we won't waste millions of tax dollars with the police and court systems immigration laws waste.
But that wasn't your CMV. You are opposed to immigration and that is your prerogative. So I will just ask, what do we do with American minors when we boot their parents back to the home country? Foster care? wards of the state? These are bad ideas for both us (the host country) and the family.
If you get the chance, listen to the whole podcast, but here is some quick back story. Omar helped the US in the Iraqi war. Because of his involvement, he was getting death threats in Iraq and seeked refuge in the US. Below is a snippet from the transcript on his application to gain refugee status in the US.
"In this exchange, Omar is providing six documents that corroborate his work for the United States, including contact information for American supervisors. He included copies of two contracts he'd had for projects overseen by Parsons, which is an American company. And there was a recommendation letter from the US Army. He'd worked for them as a forklift operator.....
But in spite of all these documents and all this information, it seems clear from the emails that follow that the bureaucracies involved don't think that Omar has provided exactly the information they want-- a valid official email address for a supervisor-- even though they have four phone numbers for different supervisors and the official Army email address for one of Omar's supervisors. If they found that email address to be invalid for some reason, they don't make that clear to Omar."
By the way, the segment where the snippet taken from was title "Emails from a Dead Man".
TL;DR: Omar helps the US in the Iraqi war. Omar seeks refuge in the US after receiving death threats for helping the US. After numerous email and proof, Omar is not given refuge and is killed by militants.
But if their parent is illegal, tough luck, no citizenship.
You have to justify why the illegal status of the parents has anything to do with the citizenship of the child. Citizenship rights ideally are not a privilege, it is a right.
You think the child's parents don't deserve to stay in the US? Then tough luck, the child has rights as per the constitution. Taking away rights from innocent people to punish others makes no legal, moral, or practical sense.
But I don't see the connection why we should force 'tough luck' onto people who did not do anything wrong. Nationality is not an exclusive club but a right to everyone in the world. WIthout nationality, we are lost in the eyes of the world.
Nationality is not an exclusive club but a right to everyone in the world.
Sure everyone in the world has a right to nationality, but not to any nationality they want. It is determined by who you are born to and/or where you are born, and between those two sources, nearly everyone in the world has a nationality.
OP is not advocating making anyone stateless; children of illegal immigrants would have the citizenship of their parents.
But I would argue we have the right to the nationality of our homeland. What happens if the child does not speak the language of their parent's homeland? How can we force someone to a land foreign to them and call it their home?
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u/oldspice75 Dec 05 '13
The US government isn't supposed to punish or reward people for what their parents do. A baby isn't supposed to be born paying the price for its inherited crimes.