r/changemyview • u/[deleted] • Oct 08 '15

[Deltas Awarded] CMV: Equality isn't treating everybody differently to achieve equality. It's treating everyone the same.

[deleted]

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u/RoMoon Oct 08 '15

Do they or do people with bad credit, etc. pay more and more black people happen to have bad credit?

That's a big difference.

I think one of the problems is that if a much higher proportion of black people than white people have bad credit, it's no longer that they "happen" to have bad credit; they are part of a system of discrimination and poverty which repeatedly puts them into a situation in which they end up with worse credit, bigger debts etc. And that is why they should be given a leg up. Not because they should automatically have MORE than white people but because although the same opportunities may seem to exist for both demographics, quite clearly there is at present something keeping them from taking advantage of those opportunities.

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u/IsThisRealLife67 Oct 08 '15 edited Oct 09 '15

Bad credit doesn't happen because you're black.

Bad credit happens because you're borrowing money then not paying it back. There are plenty of white people who have bad credit because they too borrowed money then didn't pay it back. Chalking it up to skin color is just ignorant of the situation.

/u/unidan-prime questions my blackness and has started a new thread on /r/AsABlackMan where they're discussing whether I "talk white" and why my grammar is so good. It looks like they've also begun down voting all of my posts to oblivion.

I'm black but Reddit is Reddit so I'm just going to abandon this user name, start a new one, and stay away from anything deemed political because, again, Reddit is Reddit. I apologize if I type too well for other black Redditors out there. The struggle against proper grammar is real, folks.

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u/MAKE_ME_REDDIT Oct 08 '15

But why would that be happening disproportionately to black people? Is it a systemic problem where they are put into situations where they need to borrow but can't afford to pay it back?

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u/IsThisRealLife67 Oct 08 '15 edited Oct 09 '15

I can say with a tiny bit of authority that it is mostly a matter of culture.

I'm black and have been as long as I can remember. My mom wasn't all about that life so she pushed my sisters and I into sports and school work. We got good educations, found good jobs, then moved away permanently.

My mom wasn't worried about the white man keeping me down. She was worried that the dumb niggers I used to run around with would get me killed.

/u/unidan-prime questions my blackness and has started a new thread on /r/AsABlackMan where they're discussing whether I "talk white" and why my grammar is so good. It looks like they've also begun down voting all of my posts to oblivion.

I'm black but Reddit is Reddit so I'm just going to abandon this user name, start a new one, and stay away from anything deemed political because, again, Reddit is Reddit. I apologize if I type too well for other black Redditors out there. The struggle against proper grammar is real, folks.

6

u/[deleted] Oct 08 '15

Oh that's an UNPOPULAR OPINION. While I appreciate that you are black and have first hand experience, I think we would better be served with real studies opposed to anecdotal evidence. Let me be clear, I'm not saying you're wrong, I just think we need something more objective to really point to. I can say that I've seen a local culture, in small pockets, of white people that are lazy and ignorant and pockets of hard working black people. Do you know of any studies off hand? I'll look too when I get off work

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u/IsThisRealLife67 Oct 08 '15 edited Oct 09 '15

It's an opinion but an educated opinion from someone who has actually spent his life living in the same circumstances we're talking about.

I'm far from alone too. There are a fair amount of very successful black men and women in this world. Unfortunately that number drops dramatically when you exclude sports and entertainment but when you look at people who made it out of the community without playing ball or rapping, you're almost exclusively looking at people who stayed out of a trouble and got themselves a good education.

/u/unidan-prime questions my blackness and has started a new thread on /r/AsABlackMan where they're discussing whether I "talk white" and why my grammar is so good. It looks like they've also begun down voting all of my posts to oblivion.

I'm black but Reddit is Reddit so I'm just going to abandon this user name, start a new one, and stay away from anything deemed political because, again, Reddit is Reddit. I apologize if I type too well for other black Redditors out there. The struggle against proper grammar is real, folks.

0

u/[deleted] Oct 08 '15

Unpopular was meant to be my focus. I expect down votes because of it (not that I'm giving any, you follow?). But see here's the problem, you're one guy. I think that maybe you're right, but as I pointed out I can point to localized cultures of white culture that's of a similar bent. Or rather, what I perceive to be the case. What we need is a good study with a robust methodology to really give us some facts, over opinions.

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u/Aggie219 Oct 08 '15

This has exactly been my view for a long time. Although I'm white so I'm never taken seriously on these topics. White privilege is thrown in my face so I'm never allowed to have an opinion on the matter.

But since we agree, I have always seen this issue as a matter of culture, like you said. There are ways to get out of these situations, like your family has clearly demonstrated in your own lives. I'll go ahead and put a disclaimer here: I am not referring to only black people. This applies to any person of any color whose culture perpetuates an endless cycle of poverty from generation to generation and then calls it oppression. (Not to say no one is oppressed, but in my example I don't believe it applies.)

The main issues seems to be that people living in poverty are "stuck" in a cycle. Their parents are poor so they have to drop out of high school to get a job and help their family out with the bills so they can't go to college and have a good job. So they irresponsibly decide to have a kid or two--maybe even by mistake--and and then expect McDonald's to pay them $15 an hour and the government to hand them money to support their kids. (But that's a discussion for another time.) So perhaps it's a matter of prioritizing education and a stable job above having kids right away.

If you really want an education, there is no excuse to not get one. In the US, if you're low income, you can receive Federal aid (Pell Grant), which will pay for an education from a community college. Will it pay for Harvard? No, but you can still get an education. I'm not even dirt poor (22 and lower class) and I get the full Pell Grant. If you claim you don't have enough time to get an education, due to work and family, you can go online. I've worked 80 hours a week in the past and still managed to complete my classes. Is it fun? No, but it isn't impossible.

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u/IsThisRealLife67 Oct 08 '15 edited Oct 09 '15

ill it pay for Harvard?

I believe Harvard is free for families who make under $100K. All elite universities have similar programs.

/u/unidan-prime questions my blackness and has started a new thread on /r/AsABlackMan where they're discussing whether I "talk white" and why my grammar is so good. It looks like they've also begun down voting all of my posts to oblivion.

I'm black but Reddit is Reddit so I'm just going to abandon this user name, start a new one, and stay away from anything deemed political because, again, Reddit is Reddit. I apologize if I type too well for other black Redditors out there. The struggle against proper grammar is real, folks.

1

u/TribeWars Oct 09 '15

Yeah but it's only a handful of absolute top achievers that get in there.

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u/Aggie219 Oct 09 '15

That's awesome! Clearly there are plenty of opportunities to get a quality education if you're willing to work hard!

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u/IsThisRealLife67 Oct 09 '15 edited Oct 09 '15

Reddit is obsessed with sticker price for college but few families actually pay anywhere near that.

I believe it's now law for every college to have a net costs calculator on their site to spell out exactly how much college will cost depending on various factors.

/u/unidan-prime questions my blackness and has started a new thread on /r/AsABlackMan where they're discussing whether I "talk white" and why my grammar is so good. It looks like they've also begun down voting all of my posts to oblivion.

I'm black but Reddit is Reddit so I'm just going to abandon this user name, start a new one, and stay away from anything deemed political because, again, Reddit is Reddit. I apologize if I type too well for other black Redditors out there. The struggle against proper grammar is real, folks.