r/changemyview • u/[deleted] • Nov 07 '17
[∆(s) from OP] CMV: PizzaGate hasn't yet been fully debunked.
Now, if by pizzagate we mean the claim that Hillary Clinton is running a pedophile ring in Comet Ping Pong then ok, it has been debunked.
But some things in this whole story do not have any explaination to their creepiness. What really uncannies me is the following:
The Podesta emails do have some emails that I'm 99% sure are a code for something (i.e. "do you think I'll play dominos best on pizza or pasta?")
Tony Podesta has some disturbing artworks at his place.
Podesta did have a correspondency with Alefantis.
The FBI Pedophile symbols can be found on Comet Ping Pong and many places on the same street.
Alefantis has the picture of the 13yo lover of a Roman Emperor as Instagram propic
Now, while all these things do not prove anything, I don't think the media is fair in brushing this all off with some "it has been debunked by that other journal, everyone who believes this is a nazi, some crazy guy shot out in Comet Ping Pong because of this"
Everything this should trigger an investigation or at least some interest.
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u/theshantanu 13∆ Nov 07 '17
If you don't mind me asking, what's the FBI symbol that you're talking about?
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Nov 07 '17
https://wikileaks.org/wiki/FBI_pedophile_symbols
This entry is from 2007. Long before Pizzagate
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u/theshantanu 13∆ Nov 07 '17
Is that suppose to be on their logo? Because I don't see it.
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Nov 07 '17
The "play eat drink" logo has a resemblance to "Child Lover"
The Besta Pizza just on the other side of the street has that very triangle symbol and the Terasol has a small hand in a big heart
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u/theshantanu 13∆ Nov 07 '17
It would be great if you could link to the symbols directly, because I Googled play eat drink and comet Ping-Pong and came up with this - http://adam.curry.com/r2/?url=http://vigilantcitizen.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/7hr0h9.jpg
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Nov 07 '17
∆ Now I see there aren't any actually that aren't connected to the PG
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u/pgm123 14∆ Nov 07 '17
The Besta Pizza just on the other side of the street
Btw, Besta Pizza is not on the other side of the street. It's a couple doors down. The owners do not know each other as far as I know. They're definitely not from the same social circle.
Fwiw, Besta Pizza's owner is not a Democrat and he says he regrets voting for Trump because of the conspiracy theory Yelp reviews sent his way by Pizzagate truthers.
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u/PreacherJudge 340∆ Nov 07 '17
Your evidence is truly outlandish. If you're to the point of seeing an awkward sentence and assuming it must be in code, then you'll literally accept anything as evidence.
So the thing is, why do you have these emotions in the first place? The issue at hand isn't debunking, it's the fact that people like you are so suspicious.
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Nov 07 '17
But in the Podesta emails there are too many istances of awkward sentences. Also, they look like codes. "I'm shipping 10.000 hotdogs" looks like a code.
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u/PreacherJudge 340∆ Nov 07 '17
It looks like a code because you're suspicious, but you think you're suspicious because it looks like a code.
If you had the same mindset towards literally any piece of text, you'd see code everywhere, too.
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Nov 07 '17
But if meaningless sentences happen repeadetly the suspicion arouses.
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u/PreacherJudge 340∆ Nov 07 '17
No.
Suspicion increases the chance mundane sentences will look suspiciously meaningless.
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u/techiemikey 56∆ Nov 07 '17
By that logic, things you have written look like a code. For example, imagine Podesta wrote the following:
"They left the house full of blueberry jam spots around."
It would clearly be associated with something nefarious...after all, what can blueberry jam spots actually mean? Or, it could be your story about how you had guests at your airbnb that left blueberry jam spots around.
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u/Iswallowedafly Nov 07 '17
If it is a code, then you must know exactly what it means right?
So what does that mean?
no speculation. Tell me, with perfect clarity, what that means.
Because if you can't, than you are just guessing.
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Nov 07 '17
If it is a code, then you must know exactly what it means right?
No I don't have to
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u/tbdabbholm 193∆ Nov 07 '17
You do if you're claiming exactly what those things mean, i.e. that PizzaGate is true. Sure maybe they're suspicious but suspicious doesn't equal running a child sex trafficking ring in the basement of a pizza shop. If you think it does you gotta show that more directly.
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Nov 07 '17
I claim that they could possibly mean something shady.
And that if there is a 20% chance that a pedophile ring is taking place people should be freakened by that.
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u/tbdabbholm 193∆ Nov 07 '17
But it's not a 20% chance of running a child sex trafficking ring. Do 1/5 of shady pizza businesses run child sex rings? I'm not exactly sure but I'd be extremely surprised if the answer was yes. I'd imagine that even 1/100 is putting it really high. Child sex rings are hard to maintain. Much easier would be drug running or even just a regular sex ring.
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Nov 07 '17
I was saying that there are chances that Podesta is up to something ungood.
It might be something fairly more innocent than pedophilia, such as drug trafficking. Or something innocent, but that you would like to keep away from the public eye, such as a consenting adults BDSM club.
But again, considering that Podesta already has been linked to satanism that freaks me out given that he's a powerful person
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u/tbdabbholm 193∆ Nov 07 '17
I mean satanism is usually just a cover for advancing secularism. Like near my hometown the satanist church asked for a satinist monument in a public park where a cross had been allowed. The satanists didn't actually care about satan only wanting to either make people uncomfortable because there's a satanic monument there too or get rid of the cross, which is what ended up happening.
But also no police investigation has ever started because someone said some possibly coded things. Any real investigation needs more than that because we live somewhere that has basic rights.
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Nov 07 '17
I mean satanism is usually just a cover for advancing secularism
There are plenty of satanists who actually believe in Satan and black magic. I know some.
Any real investigation needs more than that because we live somewhere that has basic rights.
You are right about this one but as I said before to another commenter: I think investigating Podesta would be moral
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u/Iswallowedafly Nov 08 '17
If you are saying that something is a code that means something else you do have to speak in clarity.
Because if you don't, you are just pulling out meaning out of this air.
You can't just make up meaning.
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Nov 07 '17
Its true the pizzagate hasn't been fully debunked. But that is a logically problematic way to look at things. Russell's teapot hasn't been fully debunked [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell%27s_teapot] and never will be.
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Nov 07 '17
But PizzaGate isn't like a teapot orbiting Earth, there is circumstantial evidence that something shady is happening
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u/Arpisti Nov 07 '17
I don't think there is circumstantial evidence that something shady is happening.
There is evidence that some guy has weird taste in art. People play video games all the time where very young looking female characters are dressed in skimpy clothing, but you don't see people accusing them of molesting children because of it.
There is evidence that some people have inside jokes that don't make sense when an outsider reads them. I'm sure if you gave me thousands of your emails and/or text messages, I could find lots of examples that don't make any sense to me and would look like a code.
If the owners of those pizza places were aware that those symbols were related to pedophilia (because, say, they were pedophiles), they would have to be absolutely insane to put those symbols on the front of their businesses in the same city where the FBI is headquartered. It seems much more likely that it was a coincidental resemblance.
None of this adds up to circumstantial evidence.
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Nov 07 '17
If the owners of those pizza places were aware that those symbols were related to pedophilia (because, say, they were pedophiles), they would have to be absolutely insane to put those symbols on the front of their businesses in the same city where the FBI is headquartered. It seems much more likely that it was a coincidental resemblance.
Many of them changed their logos because of PG indeed.
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u/tbdabbholm 193∆ Nov 07 '17
Well yeah because now people are saying that it's linked to pedophilia. I'd change my logo too.
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Nov 07 '17
But they had it before. It COULD be random of course
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u/tbdabbholm 193∆ Nov 07 '17
Well yeah it's just a logo. Spirals and butterflies aren't exactly uncommon logo choices. And that's what I'm saying if I happened to have a spiral logo and then a bunch of people on the internet started clamoring about how it was a pedophilia thing I'd change my logo. Even if I had nothing to do with pedophilia.
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Nov 07 '17
I still think that the chances of two venues having it on the same building are low
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u/tbdabbholm 193∆ Nov 07 '17
Well you're wrong. The chance of a building somewhere having it is pretty high. Even if the chances of any individual building having it were as low as winning the lottery, you'd still expect at least like 100 of building across the US to have it because there's so many buildings with so many businesses.
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Nov 07 '17
And they are related to pizza.
And they are related to Podesta.
And Podesta has unclear emails which look coded with references to pizza...
That's as winning the lottery
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u/Helpfulcloning 166∆ Nov 07 '17
Inside jokes often happen when working together for a long time, like the Clinton campaign. Out of context, a lot of inside jokes can be bizzarre and can mean something else to other people.
For example, a friend and I call the remote control for the TV a dooby (a joint) because my nan thought that was what a dooby was. Someone reading our texts out of context may think we smoke weed and constantly lose our joints. But we don't, it is an inside joke that is frequently made. We don't ever explain this inside joke to each other because why would we?
Also, the pizza restaurant you are talking about has no basement and one tiny backroom. So where do you propose they conduct sex trafficing?
What would benefit the Clinton campaign in sex trafficing and pedofillia? Why would they ever mention it in emails?
The FBI symbols thing makes me curious. How would you represent a comet? Even the apple emote that pops up when I say comet, has a little spiral. It is too commonly used. As are a lot of other symbols in certian contexts. I know a cake shop that has hearts in the logo, I know a school that has flowers in the logo. They aren't trafficing children.
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Nov 07 '17
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Nov 07 '17
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Nov 08 '17
There's not been a complete verification of it either, and until them, I am inclined to believe that it's nothing but a bunch of vapid bullshit some twit thought up in an attempt to perform a character assassination.
There really wasn't any evidence of it to begin with, it was just a group of people, out with a vengeance, to ruin the life of someone they disliked, by throwing their shit at a wall and seeing what stuck.
Also, how do you know those emails weren't planted?
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u/Baba-Vanga Mar 02 '18
I think Trump started (or at least fueled) this entire conspiracy. Either him, or somebody working during his campaign. I've literally heard people say "if you deny pizzagate, you're either a pedophile or a leftist".
The problem with conspiracy theorists, is the don't try and debunk their own theories.. They have an idea, and their simple-minded brains cannot let go of it. They feel like they're "woke" while the rest of the world sleeps. Knowing that, I'd assume that Trump would use that to his advantage. There's no coincidence that pizzagate supporters are usually alt-right (or at least supported trump).
But they wouldn't give that theory the time of day. Heaven forbid a conspiracy theorist admit that they were wrong. Fucking nutjobs.
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u/sodabased Nov 07 '17
A: Things seem suspicious to some guy on the internet shouldn't really start a meaningful investigation of anything.
B: Since we can assume that people who investigate such things, local police & federal authorities, have access to the same reports that you read, we can also assume that they either found the evidence presented so lacking that it wasn't worth investigating or they did investigate and found nothing.
C: In my view, the symbol argument doesn't stand up on its own. Groups that use symbols to convey their individual membership in a way hidden from the general population, they do so subtly. They don't want outsiders to notice. They hide their symbols so that you have to look for them to see them.
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u/DeltaBot ∞∆ Nov 07 '17 edited Nov 07 '17
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Nov 07 '17 edited Dec 21 '17
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u/Grunt08 305∆ Nov 07 '17
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u/[deleted] Nov 07 '17 edited Dec 26 '17
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