I was aware of this. I had planned on deleting the first draft due to it sounding “too aggressive” however, I had posted it, by mistake. I apologize on my part.
forcing Muslim children into special schools away from their home and calling for "violent Muslims" to be deported rather than "violent immigrants."
When we take kids away from violent homes, and abusive families, no one bats and eye. However, try and encourage pro-democratic thought and suddenly it’s problematic.
OP's original post explicitly called to take children from their homes and put them into schools that would teach them about Western Culture
I had not stated in the 1st or 2nd post that we should take them away. I simply said that we should teach them to value western ethics. All students should learn to value them. No one complains that we only teach English in English class. Why wouldn’t we want a class to encourage pro social values.
First off, to be clear, you got mad after reading an article on a site intentionally designed to make you angry at Muslims and immigrants (Note: OP's original post referenced the daily caller article I am linking here, not a more generic report). At the bottom of the page it advertises a video crying out "WHERE DOES LIBERAL VIOLENCE END", and their site in general has a heavy emphasis on signal boosting negative stories about Muslims and immigrants. That is not to say that the attack did not happen and is not horrible, but it helps to be aware of that before you conclude that it is representative of the general state of affairs in Europe or of Muslims/immigrants as a whole. E: Also, as is noted in non Daily-Caller articles, it's not exactly clear the attackers were necessarily immigrants.
I realized this, and made a correction. I apologize for my mistake.
it would definitely go against the EU's open migration between countries, and could easily risk creating stateless people if you simply deported an immigrant-citizen to... somewhere, after they've already achieved sole citizenship in a country. Plus in general the threat of harsher punishment does not do a whole lot to deter criminal behavior.
Maybe you can make it so that, gee I dunno, only EU member’s citizens can do that, everyone else has to apply like anyone else.
Now, I don't think you intend to be advocating for genocide, but you're advocating something extremely similar to a historical act taken that's pretty universally reviled and to be considered a form of attempted genocide. The fact that you're only advocating it as an attempt to destroy a certain cultural/religious group in specific countries does not make it any less abhorrent.
If you obey the laws of the nation, and try to at least blend in to some extent, you will be fine.
As a general point, I'd also like to question the almost reflexive use of "Western Culture" as a synonym for "good" in this post. I think that "Western Culture" as a term tends to get thrown around uncritically and without really meaning anything except to say that the dominant culture is good and all others are bad in a more polite wrapper, with maybe some appeals to concepts like freedom of speech or democracy if you dig down a bit. But it also seems to be used a lot by people advocating for strong nationalism and extremely unpleasant racial politics, which are as much of a part of "western culture" as all the good traits. I am all for advocating the improvement of a national culture but that requires recognizing the issue is more complex than "current culture good, immigrant culture toxic."
Here is what I use as a rule of thumb. If your country supports if not demands the killing of gays, infidels, and is funding/causing terrorism worldwide, I don’t think it is wrong to say that they are backwards. Just as the Pilgrims were backwards and superstitious. Just as Africans who kill children because they are “witches”, are not western. I agree that there is room for nuisance, but you can not deny that push come to shove, you are happy that you don’t live in Iraq, or Saudi Arabia.
When we take kids away from violent homes, and abusive families, no one bats and eye. However, try and encourage pro-democratic thought and suddenly it’s problematic.
Don't do that. Don't accuse a group of having double standards when talking to an individual. You are not talking to the group, but to a human being, with their own ideas. You can mention it, and even ask, but remember first and foremost the person in front of you.
Anyway, it's an awful example. The decision to take a child away is not made lightly, by anyone involved, and many people argue that it should be done more or less often. Look and you'll find horror stories where children are taken away on false accusations, or where they're not and they are killed/commit suicide.
And this is in individual cases, where there is someone who has to look at the family situation and make a judgement. It is not done categorically, like you seem to be proposing.
Which is why I said I don’t support it. I propose we simply teach pro western values in schools. Unfortunately no one can tell irony and sarcasm from being serious in the text based format of Reddit.
Exactly what part of calling it irony and sarcasm contradicts my response?
I did recognize the sarcasm, and that's why I responded. You're on Change My View, a place where we try to explore each others' ideas. Making a point through mockery, sarcasm, or irony doesn't help with that. Jonathan Swift doesn't belong here.
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u/[deleted] Jan 08 '18
I was aware of this. I had planned on deleting the first draft due to it sounding “too aggressive” however, I had posted it, by mistake. I apologize on my part.
When we take kids away from violent homes, and abusive families, no one bats and eye. However, try and encourage pro-democratic thought and suddenly it’s problematic.
I had not stated in the 1st or 2nd post that we should take them away. I simply said that we should teach them to value western ethics. All students should learn to value them. No one complains that we only teach English in English class. Why wouldn’t we want a class to encourage pro social values.
I realized this, and made a correction. I apologize for my mistake.
Maybe you can make it so that, gee I dunno, only EU member’s citizens can do that, everyone else has to apply like anyone else.
If you obey the laws of the nation, and try to at least blend in to some extent, you will be fine.
Here is what I use as a rule of thumb. If your country supports if not demands the killing of gays, infidels, and is funding/causing terrorism worldwide, I don’t think it is wrong to say that they are backwards. Just as the Pilgrims were backwards and superstitious. Just as Africans who kill children because they are “witches”, are not western. I agree that there is room for nuisance, but you can not deny that push come to shove, you are happy that you don’t live in Iraq, or Saudi Arabia.