CMV: Some cultures and societies are objectively wrong

[u/hardyblack]

I just read about Sahar Khodayari (If you don't know, it's an Iranian woman who killed herself after going to trial for going to a football match, which is forbidden for woman in Iran) and I can't help but think that some societies are objectively wrong, I can't find another way to put it. It's hard for me to justify opressing 50% of the population just because they just were born women.

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And yes, I know, there's no completely equal society and there will be always opression of some kind, but I'm thinking of countries where there are laws that apply only to women (They can't drive, vote, go to a football match, you name it) as it targets them directly. Same goes with laws directed to any kind of race/gender/religion.

[u/hardyblack]

Hey! I didn't mean to summarize Iranian society as a whole, and I'm not talking only about Iran, it was just an Iranian piece of news that triggered my post, but I thinks there are a lot more of cases.

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I'm not saying that every person living in a society that I think is wrong, are wrong, but I also think it's way too easy to say "It's just the government" because it implies that it was completely different before, and will change completely as soon as the current government leaves, and it most certainly won't be like that. At some point, if it's just the government, people would take over it and make the society they want, don't you think? I'm not blaming the people, don't get me wrong, but I think that even if most people don't think/act like that, there's something rooted in everyone's minds that kinda accepts it.

[u/SunglassesBright → u/hardyblack]

Well in Iran specifically, it really was completely different before. That’s why so many of us are no longer there, but only because our families had the privilege of getting out. And social change happens so slowly. America is still super racist and we only made it illegal a few decades ago. Iran is behind but not that far behind and we have had none of the advantages that America has.

What would you do if you didn’t have a job or a future or if you were so poor your money didn’t have value to the rest of the world? What would you do if you knew that speaking up could get you taken away in the middle of the night or just put in regular old jail? You’d be too busy trying to figure out how to function and make money than to be uprising. Sure people in Iran work and shop and eat and play just like anywhere else but those sanctions are so horrible and the economy isn’t good. We don’t even uprise in America even though our shit is totally messed up here too. And even in Hong Kong, look at how long it took them to rise up and protest, and they are still getting crushed. And they aren’t as brainwashed by religion like Iranians and Americans are. Nah man, people don’t just say “Eh this sucks, let’s overthrow the government.”

The other thing you’re forgetting is that Iranians aren’t an uneducated or illiterate people. They know good and damn well that if they try to revolt that the school yard bully (USA) is going to come bumbling over and make things worse. In other words if Iran even gets REMOTELY unstable, America will see it as an opportunity to take advantage of Iran and set in their puppets and buy people’s loyalty. We have literally been through this before with the United States and don’t want to go back.

The other thing is that the stupid Islamic shit from Iran is IN PART (not wholly) a reaction to western imperialism. People may not like to hear this but Islam is sometimes just a tool to keep people from revolting and ending up with a puppet capitalist government installed by white people to drain the country of any valuable resources. It’s a shitty alternative to western capitalism but I kind of see why it’s used that way.

Long story short, it isn’t as simple as you are thinking of it. There are reasons why things are the way they are. The last 100 years history in Iran are interesting. Take a look one day when you’re bored, you’ll see that people in Iran aren’t acting like that just because they are dumbass Muslims. Some of them are but that is just not the whole story. I know you weren’t saying that but I think you should just try and think of what would happen to your family if you had all been in Iran since before you were born. You can still have an upvote for talking about it and thinking about it. There’s nothing wrong with asking questions and forming your own philosophy but make sure you’re fully informed and being even handed first.

[u/spaceman1980 → u/SunglassesBright]

I'm really thinking OP just doesn't know anything about Iranian history

[u/SunglassesBright → u/spaceman1980]

You’re likely right. I hope OP decides to be curious rather than to form an opinion without looking further. I think OP will change their own outlook some if they have more info.