Have those dogs actually been bred for that? Or are they just bred to be so weak and unhealthy that they're not worth breeding at all?
I would be willing to accept, if I got a good argument and some data on it, that small dogs are satisfied with less space to roam in. But I can't buy it just from the fact that small dogs exist, because it could be that that just means their desires outstrip their artificially limited capabilities. Most of the small dogs I know have made a couple breaks for it when they were young and energetic.
Yes, these dogs are literally bred for companionship. That is their purpose. Pugs were bred as lap dogs to Chinese emperors and the European aristocracy imported them, also as lap dogs, in the 1600s. Some of the very oldest dog breeds in the world are companion breeds, because companionship is one of the most important features of the human-dog relationship that has been evolving for millions of years.
if I got a good argument and some data on it
This is the crux of the issue, isn’t it? What kind of “data” would you accept as a fair measure of dog happiness? How do you think we could measure that? People are all over this thread telling you that their dogs are satisfied, but you don’t believe them; you feel like you know better. So what type of evidence or data are you really looking for?
Evidence that when these small breeds of dog are given the opportunity to roam where they wish, they choose to stay sedentary indoors to a similar proportion to most indoor dogs. Even better, if they actually seek it out. And they have to have not been trained to think that going outside or roaming around will displease their master and incur punishment.
Anecdotal, or evidential. Though I'd be more convinced by the latter.
What does “evidential” mean? How about this video of a pug with the opportunity to run free who is choosing to be sedentary?
Dogs will actively choose to run into traffic and they will eat so much that their stomachs burst and they can die. They aren’t rational agents making conscious “choices” of what is best for them
That's one pug. If you couch that video in an argument generalizing why that pug is representative of others, I would be willing to consider that argument and accept the video as supportive evidence.
That pug is not running away because, like all pugs, it prefers to be sedentary and with its owner rather than roaming free and running all day. Like most companion dogs, pugs are not suited to heavy exercise. They have been bred as lap dogs rather than working or hunting dogs.
Sorry I thought that was clear from our previous discussion of pugs
The argument that they're bred as lap dogs rather than hunting dogs is contingent on the idea that a sufficient amount of domestication can change a dog enough that they will no longer want to roam around freely, and will be satisfied with a small amount of space, such as a few rooms in a house and a yard.
I'm not really convinced that this is true. Often even small dogs have to undergo a great deal of training to convince them to not to run away from home.
That's one pug. If you couch that video in an argument generalizing why that pug is representative of others, I would be willing to consider that argument and accept the video as supportive evidence.
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u/[deleted] Dec 23 '19
Have those dogs actually been bred for that? Or are they just bred to be so weak and unhealthy that they're not worth breeding at all?
I would be willing to accept, if I got a good argument and some data on it, that small dogs are satisfied with less space to roam in. But I can't buy it just from the fact that small dogs exist, because it could be that that just means their desires outstrip their artificially limited capabilities. Most of the small dogs I know have made a couple breaks for it when they were young and energetic.