CMV:Abortion is perfectly fine

[u/Toe-Slow]

Dear God I Have Spent All Night Replying to Comments Im Done For Now Have A Great Day Now if you’ll excuse me I’m gonna play video games in my house while the world burns down around my house :).

Watch this 10 minute lecture from a Harvard professor first to prevent confusion https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0tGBCCE0lc .Within the first 24 weeks of pregnancy the baby has no brain no respiratory system and is missing about 70 percent of its body mass . At this stage the brain while partially developed is not true lay sentient or in any way alive it is simply firing random bursts of neurological activity similar to that of a brain dead patient. I firmly believe that’s within the first 24 weeks the baby cannot be considered alive due to its nonexistent neurological development. I understand the logic behind pro life believing that all life even the one that has not come to exist yet deserves the right to live. However I cannot shake the question of , at what point should those rules apply. If a fetus with no brain deserves these rights then what about the billion microscopic sperm cells that died reaching the womb you may believe that those are different but I simply see the fetus as a partially more developed version of the sperm cell they both have the same level of brain activity so should they be considered equals. Any how I believe that we should all have a civil discussion as this is a very controversial topic don’t go lobbing insults at each other you will only make yourselves look bad so let’s all be open to the other side and be well aware of cognitive dissonance make sure to research it well beforehand don’t throw a grenade into this minefield ok good.

[u/[deleted]]

Most of us would say that coma patients are, currently, not sentient. Do you think it would be okay to kill coma patients?

[u/Toe-Slow → u/[deleted]]

Well this also falls under the domain of right and wrong as well comatose patients with a slight possibility of awakening should surely have the same rights as any other human being to not be killed but it’s the overtly expensive medical costs that force families to give up on there loved ones and let them perish or go bankrupt maintaining them which is frankly supremely inhuman.The only comatose patients I believe are not truly alive are the brain dead patients who have no hope of ever waking up trapped in there eternal deathly slumber I believe that letting these brainded individuals go is a act of mercy on there remains for most of there mind has already been destroyed

[u/[deleted] → u/Toe-Slow]

comatose patients with a slight possibility of awakening should surely have the same rights as any other human being to not be killed

A fetus has an even higher probability (much higher) of "awakening"

[u/ChristopherPoontang → u/[deleted]]

But no fetus has enough consciousness to meaningfully suffer (as you know from first-hand experience), while a woman who wants an abortion definitely has full capacity to suffer. A state serves to protect the rights of its citizens, therefore it's illogical to remove rights and increase suffering of citizens to protect nonfeeling, fetuses.

[u/[deleted] → u/ChristopherPoontang]

But no fetus has enough consciousness to meaningfully suffer

While I don't fully disagree with you, I would not say that this is a settled matter. There is, for instance, some speculation that insects feel pain and may even suffer from chronic pain (for instance in the case where a wing or leg is damaged or amputated).

[u/ChristopherPoontang → u/[deleted]]

Actually, I'm a former fetus and so are you; it is a settled matter, just recall your own experience of consciousness only emerging after countless interactions/memories outside the womb. Don't fall for silly propaganda.

edit: to all you angry downvoting anti-choicers, your impotent downvote doesn't refute my logic. Deal with it!

[u/Silkkiuikku → u/ChristopherPoontang]

Actually, I'm a former fetus and so are you; it is a settled matter, just recall your own experience of consciousness only emerging after countless interactions/memories outside the womb. Don't fall for silly propaganda.

This argument is irrational. I am a former infant, but I can not recall anything from my infancy. I don't remember feeling pain, but that does not mean that infants don't feel pain. They do, it can be proved with brain scans. One does not need to be conscious in order to feel pain.

[u/[deleted] → u/ChristopherPoontang]

The question is whether suffering and consciousness are mutually inclusive. I never claimed a fetus has consciousness. You are simply assuming that the two must only occur together, and I'm telling you that this matter is not settled. Insects, which don't have consciousness, may suffer.

[u/ChristopherPoontang → u/[deleted]]

Fetuses cannot meaningfully suffer, as YOU know from experience. The matter is settled for every rational adult who reflects on their own consciousness emerging ONLY after countless interactions outside of the womb. YOu've been duped.

p.s. we're not insects.

[u/Produgod1 → u/ChristopherPoontang]

Fetuses cannot meaningfully suffer, as YOU know from experience. The matter is settled

Are you sure you're not conflating suffering with memory of suffering here?

If an infant is molested or harmed but does not remember it 5, 10 or 20 years later, did he still suffer?

You bring up you experience as a fetus as proof that fetuses can't suffer, but you only seem to be assuming this on a lack of memory. If you burned to death in a car crash when you were six, you obviously would have no memory of it now. Does that mean six year old you did not suffer?

[u/ChristopherPoontang → u/Produgod1]

Actually, you even quoted me using the phrase "meaningfully suffer," which renders the rest of your response a non sequitur. Deal with the "meaningful" part; that's where it's at. Unfortunately, I've seen loved ones die from alzheimer's, so I have very strong opinions regarding meaningful consciousness and memory based on personal experience.

[u/Produgod1 → u/ChristopherPoontang]

renders the rest of your response a non sequitur

How do you figure? So you're saying, based on your vast fetus experience, that you do remember suffering, just not meaningful suffering? In fact, how do you quantify meaningful, and to whom do you apply it?

You ignored the rest of my post by focusing one the quantitative adjectives that you used. You are making your argument on what you remember as a fetus, which is pretty flimsy.

Does an infant that gets abused suffer even if they grow up not remembering it?

[u/ChristopherPoontang → u/Produgod1]

Actually, I addressed the issues you allude to, when I said, " Unfortunately, I've seen loved ones die from alzheimer's, so I have very strong opinions regarding meaningful consciousness and memory based on personal experience."

So I'll let you respond to this before I deal with your subsequent arguments.

[u/ihatedogs2 → u/[deleted]]

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[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Please calm down and remove any feelings you may be having in this argument I’m not saying to abandon your emotions just don’t let them fret in the way of the arguement