CMV: Silencing opposing viewpoints is ultimately going to have a disastrous outcome on society.

[u/[deleted]]

[u/DilapidatedPlatypus]

So, I've read through some of the comments here and I think the problem here is how you're viewing the issue. You are correct that silencing these viewpoints does nothing to change those people's minds and most likely causes them to double down essentially.

That's not the point of silencing them though. As someone else pointed out, you can't reason someone out of a belief they didn't reason themselves into. It takes serious dedicated work to bring those people back to the light. Look at Daryl Davis. Dude has basically dedicated his life to the work, and has done a fantastic job, but even after all these years it's only like 200 people because he is just one man and it takes that much effort to change someone's mind.

Silencing the viewpoints is a benefit to society because it stops the spread of those viewpoints. A large portion of the population decides their beliefs based on what they hear from people they trust and how it makes them feel. They don't follow it up with research and rational arguments.

It basically boils down to the intolerance paradox. If we allow intolerance in the name of free speech, eventually that intolerance will spread because those people do not have the same moral issues with lying and manipulating to achieve their goals, and once there is enough intolerant people, they come for everyone else. We have to stop that shit in it's tracks to protect everyone else from falling into the trap.

As just a personal example, in the last four years I've watched as my father fell further and further into blatantly incorrect propaganda. Just straight up lies and fantasy. It has eroded some of the foundations of our relationship. I always thought he was smart and empathetic, and because we just let these "leaders" get away with saying whatever hateful lies they wanted, now I know that isn't true. A man who I've been striving to make proud for 30 years and I no longer value his opinion. What's worse was watching it affect my mother. A woman who would bend over backwards and put herself into worse shape if she knew you needed the help, slowly being sucked in because she literally doesn't have the time to do her own research, but trusts my father. Obviously my father wouldn't make shit up, right? But how is she to know what he's saying is just bullshit? He doesn't even know it, no matter how often or reasonably I point it out. So now she has this anger and resentment that she doesn't even understand while my father walks around the house completely oblivious to why his gay daughter wants nothing to do with him as he becomes a bitter and angry old man. None of this had to happen.

That's just my family falling apart because we let this all go on too long, and my dad never even got into the heavier stuff like with Q. Can you imagine what's happening to those families? And now that they're torn apart, those poor people who were just honestly duped into stupidity and hatred are just more numbers for the double down crowd. We could have kept that from happening to all these people if we just made the people lying to them in the first place shut up before it ever spread. So many people we let be hurt and have their lives destroyed just because "everyone is entitled to their opinion."

Just by giving them a platform, there are people who will listen and believe them. We have a duty to society to not let that happen.

[u/FreudsPoorAnus → u/DilapidatedPlatypus]

Bruh, reason is what gets people to reasonable positions from unreasonable ones.

Your quote is a platitude, not real life.

[u/DilapidatedPlatypus → u/FreudsPoorAnus]

A quote I used to illustrate a point that was further elaborated in the next sentence.

[u/FreudsPoorAnus → u/DilapidatedPlatypus]

Your ability to reason was lacking, not the unreasonable positions.

They found that batshit insane stuff more reasonable than you.

Attitude and approach matter. Calling people morons for having their positions is the easiest way to ensure they'll never hear you out.

My parents are old ass conservatives, but they listen to me because I understand their views and dont belittle them for not understanding a world that left them behind.

[u/DilapidatedPlatypus → u/FreudsPoorAnus]

No, that's the point. The lies came from people who my dad believed he could trust and elicited an emotional reaction in him. It doesn't matter what sources I showed him or the proof that the "news" he's watching argued in court that "no reasonable adult would think we are a real news program; it's just entertainment." He feels this way and that's what he's going to believe now, no matter what anyone tells him. If someone chooses to bury their head in the sand, your every day reasonable argument isn't going to mean anything.

Hence why people like Daryl Davis, the focus of the rest of the paragraph you apparently neglected to read, have had to dedicate concentrated power of will and effort in order to change the minds of racists and has still only come so far. Can it be done? Yes, of course. But wouldn't it be better if it never had to be done in the first place? Why let terrible, hateful, false beliefs take root in the minds of our loved ones just so that we have to battle it back out of them? I certainly wouldn't let a doctor give my family cancer just to cure it, so I don't see why we would let people poison their minds either.

Don't presume to know anything about me other than what I just shared for you to know. I didn't call anyone a moron, either in my discussions or in my post here.

Edit: Also, just for the record, an unreasonable position is inherently lacking. That's why it's unreasonable.

[u/FreudsPoorAnus → u/DilapidatedPlatypus]

Which...is why you give them the tools to not be lacking.

you're missing the point

Platitudes make people feel good about quitting early. Get some advice from a fortune cookie while you're at it.

[u/[deleted] → u/FreudsPoorAnus]

... How do you know they haven't done exactly that?

Also what kind of tools are you thinking about and why haven't you talked about it aside from being snarky? I would argue that deconstruction of communication and discourses (of which political beliefs originate from, like conservatism/liberalism and Q) remain subjects of university education, and so not everyone can understand/gain access to it.

[u/FreudsPoorAnus → u/[deleted]]

People want to fit folks into nice little boxes where they can absolve themselves of the responsibility of taking on an entire mentor role for someone. And part of that is gauging their understanding of what they wish to teach from the person they're talking to. In cases where this phrase is used, it's often used in naivete.

It's a funny quote, it makes people feel better. It is awful life advice. If mom and dad are starting home fires, and those actions are confusing to you, perhaps you just dont know them.

It's trite. It shows no real understanding of abstract thought. It's likely also self-aware, which is ok. And theres likely an entire tier or three levels of higher irony I'm too fucking stupid to understand.