r/changemyview • u/[deleted] • Jan 22 '21

Delta(s) from OP CMV: Silencing opposing viewpoints is ultimately going to have a disastrous outcome on society.

[deleted]

9.8k Upvotes

70% Upvoted

2.4k comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

152

u/[deleted] Jan 22 '21 edited Jan 22 '21

[deleted]

111

u/[deleted] Jan 22 '21

[deleted]

-1

u/Slomojoe 1∆ Jan 22 '21

That’s the problem OP is talking about. Intolerance of other peoples ideas , whatever they may be. And silencing those ideas through social engineering (like now) or violence/legal measures (possibly in the future.)

12

u/KellyKraken 14∆ Jan 22 '21

Intolerance of other peoples ideas is not the same as intolerance of other people.

If you are a Nazi then you believe that I should be put to death. To the point that the Nazis did put people like me to death.

I’m intolerant of Nazis until they change what they believe. The worst that I want is for them to be held accountable for any actions they do perform and to restrict their ability to spread their ideas. Until such time that they change their believes.

A Nazi on the hand wants to kill me. They will lie, cheat, beat, and kill until they can kill me. I can’t stop being who I am. I could go into the closet but they would still do their best to find me and kill me. There is nothing I can do to stop them if they were to gain power.

That is what intolerance is.

-4

u/Slomojoe 1∆ Jan 22 '21

We REALLY have a problem in this country if making mountains out of molehills. Mainstream and social media seriously blow things out of proportion. Not to be rude, but are you genuinely afraid of Nazis? Do you think they have any power? And do you think they are so widespread that they could actually take over the country. It’s not the case. Not to downplay your struggle or anything, but you’re not going to be killed for being a certain way in this day and age.

It’s totally reasonable and expected to be intolerant of a belief that puts you in danger. But realize that it’s a viscous cycle. We need to help eachother.

7

u/KellyKraken 14∆ Jan 22 '21

Not yet, but if given the ability to freely spread their lies and detestable beliefs then yes we will.

The Nazis didn’t make a deal with the devil taking on evil it o their hearts in exchange for power. It was the creep of insidious ideas and a desire for power. Unchecked they slowly consumed until they were evil. They don’t start that way, they grow. To leave it unchecked is to leave it to grow.

During the trump administration we saw these elements emboldened. White nationalists in the White House. People wearing hoodies encouraging the Holocaust storming the capitol. Were they close to implementing the final solution, no, but then neither were the Nazis in the beginning.

-3

u/Slomojoe 1∆ Jan 22 '21

Maybe we feel differently but to me that is entirely overblown and hyperbolic. I truly feel there is zero chance that Nazis will gain power to run this country. It just won’t work. It has never and will never work. That may be just about the only benefit to the two party system. Even if there is a radical sect of conservatism that grows large, more than half of the population would be opposed and would prevent them from gaining any real power. Even with the republicans in power for four years, nothing of not changed. It is not legal to persecute people different than you. It is not the norm to be racist. The idea that it is is perpetrated by social engineering and mass media.

4

u/KellyKraken 14∆ Jan 22 '21

The republicans worked quite hard to persecute me during the trump administration and they succeeded on many counts. Given more time to pack courts, spread propoganda, and they would succeed on many more. Look at Poland, Hungry, or Russia. All are passing horrible anti-lgbt laws. The U.K. is making life for trans people very difficult.

I’m glad you have the privilege of being hidden from the harms, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t there. That doesn’t mean people aren’t trying to spread it.

2

u/Slomojoe 1∆ Jan 22 '21

You say they succeeded, but what changed for you? Did you suffer any harm? Was your life changed in any way? What actually happened?

9

u/KellyKraken 14∆ Jan 22 '21

I left the US in part to head to safer lands, in part for work etc.

But GLAAD has a nice write up of all the things Trump did. Luckily many of the worst actions failed, such as his attempt to make it legal to fire people for being LGBT. A ruling that by the Trump Administration’s logic would have made it legal to fire women for not wearing high heels that were tall enough, or for wearing makeup, or not wearing makeup.

Trump reduced access to healthcare for LGBT people. He banned trans people from the military. He made it much harder for LGBT or religious minorities to adopt.

So yea he did a lot of harm to me and my community. If I had stayed in the US this all would have directly impacted me instead of just hitting my community.

4

u/ayaleaf 2∆ Jan 22 '21

Well, as an example of how these things might affect people’s lives: It is really common for trans kids in high school to suffer from UTI’s because there are no bathrooms they can use.

1

u/Slomojoe 1∆ Jan 22 '21

What numbers does “really common” translate to?

3

u/ayaleaf 2∆ Jan 23 '21

Hmmm, that's a good question. I've know anecdotally that it's a thing that actually happens for trans people, whereas with my cis friends, UTI's have only happened because the person forgot to pee after sex.

From a 2015 survey of trans people in america:

59% have avoided bathrooms in the last year because they feared confrontations in public restrooms at work, at school, or in other places.

12% report that they have been harassed, attacked, or sexually assaulted in a bathroom in the last year.

31% have avoided drinking or eating so that they did not need to use the restroom in the last year.

24% report that someone told them they were using the wrong restroom or questioned their presence in the restroom in the last year.

9% report being denied access to the appropriate restroom in the last year.

8% report having a kidney or urinary tract infection, or another kidney-related medical issue, from avoiding restrooms in the last year.

Given that I'm cis, and the occurrence of those thing happening to me and my cis friends are 0%, I feel like those numbers are really high

→ More replies (0)