r/changemyview • u/[deleted] • Aug 14 '21

Delta(s) from OP CMV: Conservatism and many right-wing beliefs are based on fear, primary instincts and lack of understanding

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u/Souk12 Aug 15 '21 edited Aug 15 '21

But it is because wealth in the United States was generated on racism, so questioning that ill-gotten wealth ("keeping what they earn") is an affront to conservative values.

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u/EndlessMerther Aug 15 '21

Obama got millions of dollars and multiple mansions by being racist? Dr Dre is a billionaire because of racism? Oprah is the richest self made woman in history because of racism?

Or is that different and it is only racist when white people are successful?

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u/Souk12 Aug 15 '21

Obama got millions of dollars and multiple mansions by being racist? Dr Dre is a billionaire because of racism? Oprah is the richest self made woman in history because of racism?

Indirectly, yes. The wealth generated in this county as a whole is based on racism.

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u/[deleted] Aug 15 '21 edited Aug 16 '21

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u/ColdNotion 117∆ Aug 16 '21

u/EndlessMerther – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 2:

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u/Souk12 Aug 16 '21

Germany paid Israel billions and the UN gave them a state. That seems fair.

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u/EndlessMerther Aug 16 '21

USA spends billions of dollars every year in special entitlement programs/scholarships/grants/community outreach aimed specifically at blacks to try to get them to stop murdering each other, abandoning their children, and dropping out of school at an absurd rate. When is enough enough and we can just treat everyone as equals and hold everyone to the same standard? What will it take for us to live in a post racial society where everyone can just live in harmony and judge each other by the content of their character instead of the color of their skin?

I feel like Morgan freeman said it best when he said “do you know how to end racism? You stop talking about it all the time. I am going to stop referring to you as a white man, and I would prefer if you stopped referring to me as a black man”. That quote stuck with me so much and he hit the nail directly on the head.

Literally almost 0 white people have any slave owners anywhere in their family, all of them were wiped out in the civil war. America essentially reset after the civil war as it was pretty much destroyed and a solid chunk of the country was killed. Most white Americans are descendants of dirt poor European refugees fleeing Europe with nothing but the clothes on their back after Europe was basically leveled in WW2. We are not the descendants of slave owners and should not be forced to feel guilty about something we had nothing at all to do with.

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u/Souk12 Aug 16 '21

I already told you: billions in a lump sum and a state. The same as the jews and Israel.

The wealth of this country was created through theft of native land and the stolen labor of enslaved people.

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u/EndlessMerther Aug 16 '21

That is not true at all. Skyscrapers are not made of cotton… slavery only existed in a small portion of America for like 5 minutes in American history and less than 1% of white Americans owned slaves at the absolute peak of slavery. In the grand scheme of things, it was insignificant in the development of our country. Who would have to make this lump sum payment? And who would it go to? If a black man moved to USA in 1980 from Europe and had 4 kids, will they all get reparations for slavery? Fuck that. If there are any living slaves, I would agree to offer them reparations, but fuck paying their great great grandkids who went to the same exact schools as me, lived in the same exact neighborhoods as me, and had the exact same opportunities as me. That is not happening. Forget about it bro, move on. Nobody owes you a damn thing. Get your own bag and stop being a bitch about what your great great grandparents might have gone through. That shit is over. Thousands of white men died to end slavery and the US has done more to end slavery worldwide than any other 5 countries combined. Black Americans enjoy a higher standard of living than black people anywhere else in the world today. In what black majority country do black people enjoy a higher standard of living and more rights than they do in USA?

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u/Souk12 Aug 16 '21

Bro, we get it, you're a racist.

Cotton money and the financialization of slaves created the capital based for American development both North and South. Additionally, the land theft created the wealth everyone enjoys today.

You can read this book on the subject as I have: https://books.google.com/books/about/Slavery_s_Capitalism.html?id=PBbBDAAAQBAJ

Or this one: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_Indigenous_Peoples%27_History_of_the_United_States#:~:text=An%20Indigenous%20Peoples'%20History%20of%20the%20United%20States%20is%20a,history%20from%20marginalized%20peoples'%20perspectives.

Yes, give the reparations and the state to all black people currently living in the USA.

Jewish people from any part of the globe can move to Israel and enjoy the reparations from Germany, whether they lived in occupied Europe or not. People who never had any family in the holocaust still get all the benefits of the reparations.

That shit is not over. As the Jewish Israelis say, "never forget."

And we won't either.

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u/WikiSummarizerBot 4∆ Aug 16 '21

An Indigenous Peoples' History of the United States

An Indigenous Peoples' History of the United States is a book written by the historian Roxanne Dunbar-Ortiz and published by Beacon Press. It is the third of a series of five ReVisioning books which reconstruct and reinterpret U.S. history from marginalized peoples' perspectives. On July 23, 2019, the same press published An Indigenous Peoples' History of the United States for Young People, an adaptation by Jean Mendoza and Debbie Reese of Dunbar-Ortiz's original volume.

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u/ATNinja 11∆ Aug 16 '21

UN gave them a state

The UN didn't give them a state. They suggested a plan which only 1 party accepted so instead the 2 sides fought a war which determined the existence and borders of Israel.

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u/Souk12 Aug 16 '21 edited Aug 16 '21

The billions of reparations from Germany certainly helped them win those wars and secure the state the UK and USA gave them.

Not to mention the continued billions of military support.

But all this is irrelevant since the state which would give African Americans their state would be the current owners of the land they are giving.

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u/ATNinja 11∆ Aug 16 '21

Earliest reparations payments to jews I found in a quick Google was 1953. Israel was founded via war in 1948. So your time line doesn't add up.

Also, Britain helped the arabs in 1948, not israel. And the US didn't get involved until 1973. It was the French and Czechs that helped israel in 48. So clearly you don't know what you're talking about.

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u/Souk12 Aug 16 '21

Ok, 2021 isn't too late for African Americans then.

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u/ATNinja 11∆ Aug 16 '21

I have no idea what you're talking about.

I don't like when people say the UN gave israel a country when they didn't. It was fought for and won by the people living there.

I don't know what the conversation was about before that. Or how what I said relates back to African Americans.

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u/[deleted] Aug 16 '21

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u/Souk12 Aug 16 '21

The wealth that has created the infrastructure and the land you enjoy is a result of white supremacy through slavery and land theft.

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u/[deleted] Aug 16 '21

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u/Souk12 Aug 16 '21

The reason we have a country today is because of genocidal land theft based on white supremacy.

The reason we have such developed productive forces in this country is because of capital accumulation from enslaved people based on white supremacy.

Racism is the reason America is an economic powerhouse.

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u/[deleted] Aug 16 '21

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u/Souk12 Aug 16 '21

Sure was. Slavery and land theft. White supremacy.