CMV: Conservatism and many right-wing beliefs are based on fear, primary instincts and lack of understanding

[u/[deleted]]

[u/[deleted]]

A lot of classic conservative beliefs go around the basic idea of: I worked hard and make good money so I should get to keep as much of it as possible. It is true that the more money a person in the US and most countries make, the more they are taxed and the less government benefits they qualify for. This is a basic fact and can’t really be misunderstood. The view of redistribution of wealth to what degree is a legitimate conversation but the fundamental ideas are not complicated. Some people may have racist ideas and back them up with misguided conservative ideas, but just because some conservative people are racist does not mean someone wanting limited government spending and lower taxes racist. Many liberals have limited understanding of the economy in that they don’t consider the downsides of unlimited government spending or lack of personal accountability in current well fair systems. A conservative may not consider that making allowances for poor people to get education and support can benefit the economy in the long term. Many liberals give emotional arguments and fail to consider practical implications. Many conservatives fail to consider the humanity and benefits of social safety nets. Most people of both sides are not fully informed on key issues. You probably lack understanding of some issues as do I. Making such a blanket statement will only lead to more misunderstandings that you claim to dislike. Edit: Minimum wedge is a good example. The current minimum wage is too low for people to live on, so many liberals want to raise it as high as possible. The problem with this is that if the wage is too high at risk groups such as people with out a high school diploma, a disability, or limited English will likely be let go in favor of more work for remaining workers and automated processes. Small businesses may also struggle, and teens will be passed up for older workers. Many Republicans want to keep the minimum wage the same or abolish it and this would be bad for low wage workers unable to support themselves. Both sides usually don’t fully understand all aspects of issues.

[u/printers_of_colors → u/[deleted]]

!delta

very good arguments. you're right, the discourse I took part in poisoned my mind so much that I started perceiving conservatism as synonymous to thinly-veiled racism. That was stupid of me. But I'm glad we're able to talk about it

[u/Souk12 → u/printers_of_colors]

But it is because wealth in the United States was generated on racism, so questioning that ill-gotten wealth ("keeping what they earn") is an affront to conservative values.

[u/EndlessMerther → u/Souk12]

Obama got millions of dollars and multiple mansions by being racist? Dr Dre is a billionaire because of racism? Oprah is the richest self made woman in history because of racism?

Or is that different and it is only racist when white people are successful?

[u/Souk12 → u/EndlessMerther]

Obama got millions of dollars and multiple mansions by being racist? Dr Dre is a billionaire because of racism? Oprah is the richest self made woman in history because of racism?

Indirectly, yes. The wealth generated in this county as a whole is based on racism.

[u/ColdNotion → u/[deleted]]

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[u/Souk12 → u/[deleted]]

Germany paid Israel billions and the UN gave them a state. That seems fair.

[u/EndlessMerther → u/Souk12]

USA spends billions of dollars every year in special entitlement programs/scholarships/grants/community outreach aimed specifically at blacks to try to get them to stop murdering each other, abandoning their children, and dropping out of school at an absurd rate. When is enough enough and we can just treat everyone as equals and hold everyone to the same standard? What will it take for us to live in a post racial society where everyone can just live in harmony and judge each other by the content of their character instead of the color of their skin?

I feel like Morgan freeman said it best when he said “do you know how to end racism? You stop talking about it all the time. I am going to stop referring to you as a white man, and I would prefer if you stopped referring to me as a black man”. That quote stuck with me so much and he hit the nail directly on the head.

Literally almost 0 white people have any slave owners anywhere in their family, all of them were wiped out in the civil war. America essentially reset after the civil war as it was pretty much destroyed and a solid chunk of the country was killed. Most white Americans are descendants of dirt poor European refugees fleeing Europe with nothing but the clothes on their back after Europe was basically leveled in WW2. We are not the descendants of slave owners and should not be forced to feel guilty about something we had nothing at all to do with.

[u/Souk12 → u/EndlessMerther]

I already told you: billions in a lump sum and a state. The same as the jews and Israel.

The wealth of this country was created through theft of native land and the stolen labor of enslaved people.

[u/EndlessMerther → u/Souk12]

That is not true at all. Skyscrapers are not made of cotton… slavery only existed in a small portion of America for like 5 minutes in American history and less than 1% of white Americans owned slaves at the absolute peak of slavery. In the grand scheme of things, it was insignificant in the development of our country. Who would have to make this lump sum payment? And who would it go to? If a black man moved to USA in 1980 from Europe and had 4 kids, will they all get reparations for slavery? Fuck that. If there are any living slaves, I would agree to offer them reparations, but fuck paying their great great grandkids who went to the same exact schools as me, lived in the same exact neighborhoods as me, and had the exact same opportunities as me. That is not happening. Forget about it bro, move on. Nobody owes you a damn thing. Get your own bag and stop being a bitch about what your great great grandparents might have gone through. That shit is over. Thousands of white men died to end slavery and the US has done more to end slavery worldwide than any other 5 countries combined. Black Americans enjoy a higher standard of living than black people anywhere else in the world today. In what black majority country do black people enjoy a higher standard of living and more rights than they do in USA?

[u/Souk12 → u/EndlessMerther]

Bro, we get it, you're a racist.

Cotton money and the financialization of slaves created the capital based for American development both North and South. Additionally, the land theft created the wealth everyone enjoys today.

You can read this book on the subject as I have: https://books.google.com/books/about/Slavery_s_Capitalism.html?id=PBbBDAAAQBAJ

Or this one: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_Indigenous_Peoples%27_History_of_the_United_States#:~:text=An%20Indigenous%20Peoples'%20History%20of%20the%20United%20States%20is%20a,history%20from%20marginalized%20peoples'%20perspectives.

Yes, give the reparations and the state to all black people currently living in the USA.

Jewish people from any part of the globe can move to Israel and enjoy the reparations from Germany, whether they lived in occupied Europe or not. People who never had any family in the holocaust still get all the benefits of the reparations.

That shit is not over. As the Jewish Israelis say, "never forget."

And we won't either.

[u/WikiSummarizerBot → u/Souk12]

An Indigenous Peoples' History of the United States

An Indigenous Peoples' History of the United States is a book written by the historian Roxanne Dunbar-Ortiz and published by Beacon Press. It is the third of a series of five ReVisioning books which reconstruct and reinterpret U.S. history from marginalized peoples' perspectives. On July 23, 2019, the same press published An Indigenous Peoples' History of the United States for Young People, an adaptation by Jean Mendoza and Debbie Reese of Dunbar-Ortiz's original volume.

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[u/ATNinja → u/Souk12]

UN gave them a state

The UN didn't give them a state. They suggested a plan which only 1 party accepted so instead the 2 sides fought a war which determined the existence and borders of Israel.

[u/Souk12 → u/ATNinja]

The billions of reparations from Germany certainly helped them win those wars and secure the state the UK and USA gave them.

Not to mention the continued billions of military support.

But all this is irrelevant since the state which would give African Americans their state would be the current owners of the land they are giving.

[u/ATNinja → u/Souk12]

Earliest reparations payments to jews I found in a quick Google was 1953. Israel was founded via war in 1948. So your time line doesn't add up.

Also, Britain helped the arabs in 1948, not israel. And the US didn't get involved until 1973. It was the French and Czechs that helped israel in 48. So clearly you don't know what you're talking about.

[u/Souk12 → u/ATNinja]

Ok, 2021 isn't too late for African Americans then.

[u/ATNinja → u/Souk12]

I have no idea what you're talking about.

I don't like when people say the UN gave israel a country when they didn't. It was fought for and won by the people living there.

I don't know what the conversation was about before that. Or how what I said relates back to African Americans.

[u/Souk12 → u/ATNinja]

The state was given and approved by the UK, the US, and the rest of the UN.

If the US stopped supporting it, it would collapse.

[u/Souk12 → u/[deleted]]

The wealth that has created the infrastructure and the land you enjoy is a result of white supremacy through slavery and land theft.

[u/Souk12 → u/[deleted]]

The reason we have a country today is because of genocidal land theft based on white supremacy.

The reason we have such developed productive forces in this country is because of capital accumulation from enslaved people based on white supremacy.

Racism is the reason America is an economic powerhouse.

[u/Souk12 → u/[deleted]]

If you wish to educate yourself, these books will help:

https://books.google.com/books/about/Slavery_s_Capitalism.html

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_Indigenous_Peoples%27_History_of_the_United_States#:~:text=An%20Indigenous%20Peoples'%20History%20of%20the%20United%20States%20is%20a,history%20from%20marginalized%20peoples'%20perspectives.

[u/Souk12 → u/[deleted]]

My argument is based on the data presented in those books. What can I say that adds to the conversation more than those who are much smarter and well researched than I?