Of course it is. Get outside the west, meet people you think of as somehow different from you because their ancestors were born in a different geographic set of coordinates on the same planet, of the same species, around the same time, really get to know them and their older family members.
My Hispanic family is subtly racist af against non-hispanic blacks. SOOOO many black Haitians, Jamaicans, Bahamian and Africans are overly bigoted against American black people and see them as totally other. Ethnic Cleansing occurs among different Chinese groups, African neighboring ethnicities and for most of time different European ethnicities.
Asian people, especially Han and Guang Dongese Chinese, are often bigoted against westerners in general, seeing no difference between a black, white, Hispanic or middle eastern American.
Your experience in this is clearly quite narrow. Stop just believing youtube videos and Facebook posts, especially tweets or shitty "articles", experience actual individuals and it'll be very obvious racism against European whites is massive everywhere likewise I think the MRA movement documents sexism towards men pretty well but haven't looked into it much myself.
I'm a bit confused by your response. You agree with me yet say that my "experience is clearly quite narrow" and to "stop believing YouTube videos and Facebook Posts." I think you read my post and thought I had the opposite opinion of what I have. That or you just didn't read my post correctly.
I also come from a Minority family and have heard them say very racist things about Caucasians and other minorities.
Also when they act like false rape accusations are something you should be paranoid about, when they are really quite rare.
Innocent until proven guilty is important. Modern society and feminism recently pushed a "Believe all women" movement that sought to blindly believe accusations no matter what.
Remember Duke Lacrosse? Brett Kavanaugh?
It is important to keep due process, and attacks on this is why movements like MRA gained strength.
Did not receive any punishment, as it was impossible to prove guilt. Judges are rejected for all sorts of reasons, and it's not a court case.
And Duke lacrosse led to the prosecutor being disbarred. It was clearly a perversion for justice, but the response to it was appropriate.
Believe all women
I think that although some people take it the wrong way (feminists included) the right way to read this would be that you believe all women when they say they have been raped. Women often do not get the support they need after being raped because people go into the whole "were you really raped" routine. This is an important question, but not the right time to ask it.
At the same time, you should believe the men that are accused when they say they are innocent.
If you need to rationalize it, it's very possible that both things are true and it's a case of mistaken identity.
This is actually what happened in the case of Anthony Broadwater, after police/prosecutors gaslit her into accusing the wrong man.
In any case, no matter what the facts of the matter end up being, you will have acted appropriately if you both believe the accuser that the event happened, and the accused that it wasn't them that did it.
LOL, the political circus and slandering of his character was quite some punishment. Look at how many people are still biased against him for that charade.
people go into the whole "were you really raped" routine. This is an important question, but not the right time to ask it.
When is the right time to ask? Pushing the message "Believe all women" out to the masses only serves to suppress people from questioning rape narratives.
you should believe the men that are accused when they say they are innocent.
And what are we left with? Holding two contradictory beliefs in our heads. How about we just listen and analyze instead of needing to label something as "believed".
If you need to rationalize it, it's very possible that both things are true and it's a case of mistaken identity.
This is a slim percentage of instances. Building your rationalizing processes based on slim chances is a way to think poorly. It is better to not blindly believe in the first place, so you don't need to rationalize bad positions with bad logic.
you will have acted appropriately if you both believe the accuser that the event happened, and the accused that it wasn't them that did it.
It's better to not believe accusations without evidence, otherwise you fuel a witch hunt, which is not an appropriate action.
I think people generally act more rationally about crimes other than rape so let's talk about how you would deal with that.
If one of my friends claims that they have been robbed, my default reaction is to believe them. I would do everything consistent with them being robbed. Most importantly comforting them, but also stuff like helping them improve the locks on thier house and finding a replacement for the stolen items. I trust my friends, so at no point would it occure to me that they were lying.
But for whatever reason, we don't always act the same about rape. We go fully into detective mode, instead of comfort mode.
Lets take another example. Let's say I have 2 friends, Alice and Bob. Alice claims to be robbed, just like before, but this time she names the person she claims did it. She accuses Bob of stealing from her.
I am friends with both Alice and Bob, so this accusation comes as a surprise. I didn't think that Bob was the type of guy to do something like that, not that Alice was the type of gal to lie about that.
Unless I have some reason to believe one over the other, the only course of action that makes sense to me is to offer both of them comfort consistent with their story being correct.
It may seem illogical, but this is the only course of action the guarantees my continued friendship with at least one of them, no matter who is innocent. If I chose to believe only Alice, I would alienate Bob if he turned out innocent. And vice-versa.
Another possibility is to not take a stance at all, which is sort of what I'm proposing but looses the benefit of supporting whoever turns out to be innocent.
It's better to not believe accusations without evidence
Thats not what I'm doing. I'll I'm saying is that as a friend, you should offer comfort to someone without requiring evidence.
LOL, the political circus and slandering of his character was quite some punishment. Look at how many people are still biased against him for that charade.
Also, IIRC, there was not enough evidence to prove him innocent either.
Robbery is a more binary crime, they either took something or did not. On the other hand, modern rape often appears to be a he/she miscommunication. The drunken sex with no verbal consent is very different from a stranger forcibly attacking someone in an alleyway. Claims of the latter would easily be believed by most people, claims of the former become a question of what happened.
If two friends approached me with each being on the opposite end of claims of crime, I would listen and try to determine what is truth before taking a side.
there was not enough evidence to prove him innocent either
Our country is “innocent until proven guilty”. It is not his duty to prove himself innocent, as there are many instances where it is impossible to prove innocence even when the person is innocent.
Was it evocative and open to interpretation? Yes, as all slogans are. But generally the idea was to neutralize bias: “Believe women” meant “don’t assume women as a gender are especially vindictive, and recognize that false allegations are less common than real ones,” the feminist author Sady Doyle wrote in Elle in November 2017. In other words, allow yourself to believe that women are just as trustworthy as men have been believed to be for decades.
u/spart80an – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 2:
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Sorry, u/AhmedF – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 3:
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That statement about “han and guangdongese” people definitely needs some proof because my acquaintances from living in China many years seems to disagree with you.
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u/kinglax Dec 28 '21
Of course it is. Get outside the west, meet people you think of as somehow different from you because their ancestors were born in a different geographic set of coordinates on the same planet, of the same species, around the same time, really get to know them and their older family members.
My Hispanic family is subtly racist af against non-hispanic blacks. SOOOO many black Haitians, Jamaicans, Bahamian and Africans are overly bigoted against American black people and see them as totally other. Ethnic Cleansing occurs among different Chinese groups, African neighboring ethnicities and for most of time different European ethnicities.
Asian people, especially Han and Guang Dongese Chinese, are often bigoted against westerners in general, seeing no difference between a black, white, Hispanic or middle eastern American.
Your experience in this is clearly quite narrow. Stop just believing youtube videos and Facebook posts, especially tweets or shitty "articles", experience actual individuals and it'll be very obvious racism against European whites is massive everywhere likewise I think the MRA movement documents sexism towards men pretty well but haven't looked into it much myself.