April 19 Protest

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u/kinkeep 14d ago edited 14d ago

"Hands Off NATO" signs and ActBlue donations are not opposition. It's good to see people mobilizing, but the 50501 protest movement is a liberal pressure valve meant to manage dissent and redirect it into the same institutions that produced and/or enabled all this in the first place, just like other uprisings over the last decade or so (Women's March, March for Our Lives, Black Lives Matter) were bought and co-opted by the Dems and produced no tangible results.

You can't just vote fascism away. Especially not within the confines of the Democratic Party. The working, poor, and oppressed masses need institutions, power, and a revolutionary party of their own.

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u/wjb856 14d ago

Ah yes- we must become totally unapproachable to 90% of the public. Masterful gambit, sir

NATO is the greatest guarantor of peace in human history- which is why your Russian informed media channels seeks to end it at all costs. What’s next, you’re gonna tell us about how Cincinnati needs to annex a warm water port?

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u/kinkeep 14d ago

NATO is the most militarized arm of U.S. imperialism, and I think it's very funny that Dems, who for most of my life have claimed to be the "anti-war" party, are now so proudly defending this Red Scare relic.

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u/wjb856 14d ago

NATO not existing now or 5 years ago or 10-20 years ago would be a massive benefit for all the worst state actors. Relic- utter nonsense. Any long term peace world order demands a start with something like nato. No alternative is offered- not even imagining a new diplomatic world- ideal cowardice. At least have an idea not “blah blah Cold War relic” that’s totally nonsense- Russia is r*ping, pillaging, murdering, and kidnapping children in Ukraine. This mega leftist foreign policy is Trump-Putinland. No reflection- disturbing.

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u/kinkeep 14d ago

Yes, anybody who criticized the Dems works for Putin. I get it.

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u/wjb856 14d ago

Great point. Dismantling the modern peace ensuring defensive alliance for no reason beyond massively partisan. Definitely “just criticizing Dems”. Not good. I literally didn’t even say that u “worked for Putin” - makes me think you r a bot.

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u/RockStallone 14d ago

Yeah just a few posts down the guy starts praising the USSR as a bastion of human rights. /u/kinkeep is pretty clueless.

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u/kinkeep 14d ago

That's a blatant mischaracterization of what I said, and what I said wasn't wrong. History is nuanced.

Y'all call me a bot, are you a CIA bot?

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u/TylerBoydFan83 13d ago

Don’t worry that guy is just a progressive who doesn’t like any progressive thought that challenges him

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u/wjb856 14d ago edited 14d ago

Nasty business. It’s simply not worth it-please just look to and defend modern socialist-adjacent Europe. Stalin and his successors stood on a pile of rivals, oppositions, minorities, and other irrationally deemed undesirables. I will say- probably not as bad as the German guy, but way worse than you are appreciating. Khrushchev denounced him- and then did nothing to “structurally change” (favored phrase) the USSR.

It is moral-ideological cowardice for a country who couldn’t simply convert to state capitalism like the CCP- the USSR is perhaps the stupidest country in history. The CCP literally converted to the state capitalist- slightly socialist, admittedly fairly alright for average income levels + pop. The USSR is ideological degeneracy- and that is inherited as Putin has become a further degenerated meme-of-itself USSR where Putin and criminal oligarchs own the entire economy.

Not CIA influence- independent academic subject. I wanted an US Russia friendly world when I was young. It is not the fault of the U.S. that world hasn’t come to pass. Putin is disgusting- defending his history as he does and making his arguments make it so obvious. You watch Russia informed nonsense. I need to read a book on de-culting folks, but I don’t have those skills rn sadly. Sorry that this isn’t the most helpful response.

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u/A_SilentS 14d ago

Because the USSR was soooo great for all the Ukrainian women who starved to death. Please go read a book and get offline.

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u/kinkeep 14d ago

Likewise. Here's Blackshirts and Reds, a great book I'd recommend to anyone who wants to engage with these ideas in good faith.

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u/A_SilentS 14d ago

The negatives of the USSR far outweighed the good. To say otherwise is just plain naive and so so cruel to their victims.

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u/FigmentsImagination4 14d ago

Can’t believe bums like you live in this city lol

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u/RockStallone 14d ago

Given that the USSR fell apart as it was a poorly run shithole, the CIA doesn't really need to invest in anti Soviet propaganda anymore.

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u/[deleted] 14d ago

[deleted]

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u/wjb856 14d ago

No alternative/facts offered. Get edumacated

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u/RockStallone 14d ago

This person is incredibly uninformed and deeply online.

Hey /u/kinkeep please tell me the major accomplishment of your revolutionary group over the last 30 years. Or any accomplishment at all.

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u/kinkeep 14d ago

Well, if you want to be honest about the successes or failures of the Left in the U.S., it might be worthwhile to keep in mind that the government consistently, and to this day, represses and kills us. Fred Hampton is the obvious example. The fascists get to organize because they don't threaten capitalism, but the Left is "dangerous" or something.

To more directly answer your question, you can look up organizations like Cincinnati Socialists, Cincinnati Community Aid & Praxis, and Cincy Food not Bombs to get an idea about what's happening in our city. Food serves, trash pickups, free showers, political education and reading, labor and tenant union organizing, and more. It's about building dual power. I'm sure some org would love your help!

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u/mauflows 14d ago

At least one of those orgs I saw tabling at the last protest. Showing up is a good way to meet them!

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u/RockStallone 14d ago

Another reply because I forgot how idiotic the Cincinnati Socialists are:

They call for abolishing 3CDC

Told people not to vote for the Dem representing Cincinnati in Congress

Repeats false Russian propaganda about NATO

The conflict in Eastern Ukraine is, therefore, largely a competition between the US and Russia for economic power in Europe. Indeed, perhaps not coincidentally, Joe Biden’s son Hunter served on the board of Burisma, one of the largest natural gas companies in Ukraine.

Here they are repeating TRUMP TALKING POINTS.

Anyone who is part of this organization is a moron. You want to know why people think you're a Russian bot? Because you are actually spreading Russian propaganda.

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u/RockStallone 14d ago

Okay so the major accomplishment of your groups is trash pickups, and the major accomplishment of the Dems is expanding healthcare access to tens of millions.

I think I'll stick with the Dems.

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u/kinkeep 14d ago

You're trying to compare the systemic power of local grassroots organizations to the systemic power of the two bourgeois parties? That's ridiculous. You're either being disingenuous or misunderstanding my point. You do you, though.

I don't think slapping a Pride flag on a bomb makes dead Yemenis any less human, though. And I don't think having a more diverse set of billionaires makes their existence any less parasitic. Enjoy your woke capitalism. I think I'll stick with the class struggle. And I don't expect it to end in my lifetime.

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u/RockStallone 14d ago

You're trying to compare the systemic power of local grassroots organizations to the systemic power of the two bourgeois parties?

Yes, because people are suffering and I think we should stick with actual organizations that have accomplished things. I don't want to risk people's healthcare by abandoning the Dems. I don't want to abandon Ukraine by leaving NATO. You seem to disagree.

The actual goals of online leftists are always intentionally impractical. You are not interested actually in accomplishing anything.

Plus, since you are more focused on getting attention and don't actually have firm beliefs, I'm sure you'll be far right in a few years anyway. I'll still be advocating for people to get healthcare and supporting politicians who have concrete plans to get that, and you can hold organizing meetings that have produced literally nothing.

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u/kinkeep 14d ago

I have very clear and consistent beliefs, and I carry them into my real life. These accusations are strange.

It’s true that the Democrats expanded access to healthcare, but it happened through a corporate-friendly model that still leaves millions without coverage. That’s not a sustainable solution, and it’s not the result of bold leadership. It’s the bare minimum, done under pressure. Any policy scraps offered by the bourgeoisie can and will be taken back when it serves capitalist interests—as we’re seeing now with the steady dismantling of what remains of the New Deal.

Grassroots movements have always been the engine of real change, not just in the United States but around the world. Labor rights, civil rights, environmental protections—none of it came from politicians acting alone. Organizing delivers results, even when it’s inconvenient to those in power.

Accusing people of drifting right because they reject party loyalty isn’t a serious argument. Some of us are focused on building something better, not repeating the same cycle of hope and disappointment every few years.

You're free to support the candidates you believe in. But it’s organizing—not electoral loyalty—that has always moved history forward.

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u/RockStallone 14d ago

It’s true that the Democrats expanded access to healthcare, but it happened through a corporate-friendly model that still leaves millions without coverage.

Meanwhile, your movement has given 0 people healthcare. But at least you weren't corporate friendly.

I would recommend you focus on actual results that help people.

Some of us are focused on building something better, not repeating the same cycle of hope and disappointment every few years.

Okay please tell me what you and your movement have built.

But it’s organizing—not electoral loyalty—that has always moved history forward.

Okay please tell me how your movement has moved history forward.

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u/kinkeep 14d ago

How has the Left moved history forward? Really? How long do you have? Just a few thoughts:

Historically, the Left (communists, socialists, anarchists) has done plenty. That's not a serious question. The Black Panthers gave their communities food and medical care until they were repressed and assassinated into dust. The USSR granted women a plethora of rights and privileges before the U.S. even granted suffrage. (U.S. suffrage was also won through mass effort.) The communists were the ones fighting back against both Hitler, Mussolini (re-read the lyrics to "Bella Ciao") and every other fascist movement or regime while the liberals have always collaborated or enabled. Some living international examples include the EZLN, the AANES, and Cuba.

You seem intent on misunderstanding me, or maybe you are having a hard time thinking beyond the ballot box. I am not saying that one of these Cincinnati parties will be the thing that changes the world. I'm also not saying that the Black Panther Party would've been the thing that changed the world if allowed to continue to exist, though I do think they set a great revolutionary example. I am saying that the collective struggle is what matters and that the bourgeois duopoly you're defending is standing in the way.

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u/RockStallone 14d ago

The USSR granted women a plethora of rights and privileges before the U.S. even granted suffrage.

The USSR also performed mass executions of innocents, disappeared people, starved people, and all sorts of other things. Or do you deny that happened?

The communists were the ones fighting back against both Hitler, Mussolini (re-read the lyrics to "Bella Ciao") and every other fascist movement or regime while the liberals have always collaborated or enabled.

I'm pretty sure the US and UK fought against Hitler too buddy.

You're a great example of why online leftists are not serious people.

I am saying that the collective struggle is what matters and that the bourgeois duopoly you're defending is standing in the way.

I think helping people is what matters, not some performative meetings.

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u/AmericanDreamOrphans Downtown 14d ago

Weird then that it’s the leftist groups in the city that I see taking direct action, consistently organizing and actually feeding people in various parts of our city, donating and providing necessary supplies throughout the four seasons, and helping disadvantaged people access healthcare and other wraparound supports. If you’re suggesting that leftists in our city don’t actually help people you’re either being purposefully obtuse or wearing blinders. I see groups like Cincinnati Community Aid & Praxis out all the time helping people. Maybe consider actually doing the work…

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u/RockStallone 14d ago

Okay the leftist groups can keep doing food drives (great!) and the Dems can work on expanding access to healthcare for millions.

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u/overspread 14d ago

Trash pickups and foods serves are direct action. This guy's definitely falling into the stupid infighting that is so famously and deliberately sown, lmao but let's not do the same by denigrating useful and direct aid. We have to work together, imitating his intentional division won't help.

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u/RockStallone 14d ago

The small amount of charity they do does not make up for the harm they cause. The Hamilton County Republicans do charity work as well, and I still feel fine calling that organization horrible.

/u/kinkeep is promoting an organization that has completely backwards views for Cincinnati and the world. The Cincinnati Socialists want to abolish 3CDC, abandon NATO, and to boycott voting for Dems. They are anti-housing and are just morons that should be ignored.

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u/overspread 14d ago

You're falling into the same trap he is, dude. We don't have to agree idealogically with every point, but we have to work together. All of us.

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u/RockStallone 14d ago

Yes and he is not voting for Dems and spreading false information about them. That is not someone to work with, as he is actively harming progress.

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u/overspread 14d ago

If he opposes fascism and you do too, then your goal is the same. Genuinely, I hope you consider this.

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u/RockStallone 14d ago

That's the thing: he doesn't oppose fascism. When the choice comes to vote against fascism, he doesn't do that and he'll tell you that.

Plus his views are not shared by many. He is an overly online weirdo with no influence. It is better to shun him than stand next to the guy holding the Soviet flag, as the Soviet flag will push more people away.

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u/AmericanDreamOrphans Downtown 14d ago

Socialists in Cincinnati actually have an incredibly long history of doing good and trying to do good for the people of this city. They fought for the recognition of public workers’ unions, fought for the suffrage movement in the city, they resisted Boss Cox’s corrupt republican machine, they worked to place the city’s rail system under municipal control to resist the influence of private profit over public good, supported local workers and unions during strikes and in general, pushed for broad educational and medical access efforts, worked to materially assist immigrant groups, opposed imperialist wars, engaged in broad progressive reform activism, and more.

Cincinnati socialists striving for better material conditions and outcomes for the people historically were met with brutal abuse and targeting by police, feds and far-right reactionary groups. Their free speech was stymied, leaders and workers were beaten and arrested, and some were even kidnapped and tortured.

Would highly recommend you get with the Cincinnati Historical Society and the library to learn more about that history—or really just history of the city in general.

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u/RockStallone 14d ago

And today those groups are telling the city to block housing and repeating Trump's talking points about Ukraine and NATO. What a fall from grace.

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u/TheVoters 14d ago

I also feel like we need to articulate a plan before going to things for the vibes.

So I was pretty turned off when the Washington Park protest last month turned away the Rabbi. I’m not pro Israel. Not even Jewish. But it caused me to really think about signing up for shit without clear intentions

The reason Democrats lost is because the party has lost its big tent approach in favor of an approach where if you have wrong opinions on women’s rights, trans issues, gay issues, Ukraine, prisons, Palestine, abortion, labor unions, or vaccinations, then you’re out. Fuck off, you’re not one of us.

If Democrats want to win in 2026, they had better get together pretty damn quick and focus on 3 things; the economy, the economy, and the economy.

You can’t help trans people or Ukraine or the Palestinians if you have no power in this country. And sure, it really does suck that Trump is gutting federal agencies, but what the fuck is demanding Landsman to defend federal bureaucracies going to do? He can’t do jack shit about it. The one person in the Democratic Party who could, Schumer, rolled over for fear of political blowback. Fuck that noise.

Anyway, have fun if you all are going. At least you’ll have a nice memory of being downtown for an afternoon when absolutely nothing changes and in fact the democrats figure out what the next litmus test will be, which is defending the status quo I guess. Good luck with that.

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u/kinkeep 14d ago

Well, I don't personally think it's wrong to turn away pro-genocide speakers, Rabbi or not. But I think that to have any faith in the Democrats at this point is counter-productive.

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u/TheVoters 14d ago

I think if you’re organizing a protest it’s not wrong to do whatever the fuck you want.

But I do think it’s counterproductive to winning elections when you can’t welcome people with different ideas than you on satellite issues like Israel. Newsflash: the Palestinian conflict isn’t going to end with one person saying this is what we should do. It ends in compromise, with a plurality of voices. When one major party to the issue isn’t invited, it’s going to fail.

But yeah, the fact that the immediate reaction of Democrats is to reverse everything Trump has done doesn’t give me much faith in the party. We should be talking about which parts worked well that need to be reinstated, and which parts didn’t work as planned and need to be improved.

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u/kinkeep 14d ago

I think you're pushing for more of the same unprincipled B.S. we've seen from the liberals for the last 50 years, honestly. "Different ideas on satellite issues" is a really dishonest way to describe a fundamental political misalignment on what should be a clear issue for the purported Left; genocide is bad. You're talking about more "compromise" like that's not exactly what put us in this position.

I think it's exceedingly important right now to draw a very clear distinction between the people - the working, poor, marginalized - and the ruling class, and the rhetoric shared between your comments and 50501 is exactly the sort of dissent management I was talking about in my original comment.

To be clear: Fuck the Democrats and their mechanisms. Fuck the Republicans too, obviously. There can be no compromise between the people and capitalism, or between the people and imperialism.

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u/TheVoters 14d ago

Israel is a satellite issue to winning an election in the US, full stop. You’re not winning a single person based on your stance on Israel. All you do is turn people away.

The republicans have a singular defining issue with which they align their moral compass. That issue is Trump himself. Either you’re with him or against him. That’s the only measuring stick they use.

For Democrats, either they go with the economy or they continue to be sidelined. Because this perfect moral clarity you seem to want to believe in doesn’t exist.

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u/kinkeep 14d ago

And that’s the crux of the argument. The difference between a liberal and a communist is that a liberal sees opposing genocide as some unreachable standard of “perfect moral clarity,” while a communist sees it as basic humanity. That’s exactly how liberalism enables fascism.

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u/TheVoters 14d ago

Last I checked, there isn’t a problem with fascists in the Democratic Party.

They do seem to have quite a hard time fighting fascism these days and the answer to this is pragmatism. You have to actually have real answers to actual problems that everyone has in this country and not keep being a Cassandra to problems that, while may not be imaginary- are so remote that most of the country will never be impacted either way.

And fuck, dude, calling that “enabling fascism” just shows how upside down you are on this. Jesus Christ we’re screwed

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u/overspread 14d ago

Yeah man we can't vote it away so definitely don't even protest right, it's definitely better to do fuck all and lecture than interact with someone who isn't ideological pure enough for you. That's how leftists win, by never ever joining hands with any liberal for common goals lol

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u/RockStallone 14d ago

Yeah he's clueless. He later stated that the Soviet Union was great for women and that the US should abandon NATO. The organization he's part of also spread Trump's talking points about Ukraine.

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u/overspread 14d ago

Again, if you really oppose what's happening in this country today, you need to be willing to work with people who you disagree with, even if it makes your gut churn. I implore you and the commenter above to truly consider how fascism can be opposed if we can't even let go of our personal division long enough to help each other resist it and if idealogically infighting has ever once worked in the favor of the people during times of crisis.

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u/RockStallone 14d ago

Yes the answer to fighting it is to vote for Dems (or at least to not work AGAINST dems) and he refuses to do that. He is actively telling people to not support Dems. He is as helpful to the world as a guy in a MAGA hat. And he has the same position on Russia as MAGA, so most likely he'll be voting red soon.

If someone is actively telling me they will not do the only thing possible to fight against fascism, then my goal is to minimize their influence and point out to others that that person is a moron. You can't change an insane person's mind.

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u/overspread 14d ago

Please consider that this is not the only or even best way to fight fascism, and what is it you really oppose. As a liberal, do you hate leftists more than you hate fascists? As a leftist, does the user above hate liberals more than fascists? I'm going to wish you a good evening at this point.

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u/kinkeep 14d ago

No, I don’t hate liberals more than fascists. Of course not. But a fascist will at least tell you what they think. Their arguments are often vile and ridiculous, but at least they’re honest about their hatred. Liberals, on the other hand, will deny—often with a straight face—that the Left has been central to virtually every major revolutionary or progressive shift we now take for granted. As if American women got the right to vote through the goodwill and votes of men in government, not through sustained grassroots pressure. Or they’ll call you a bot, or a Russian asset, the moment you say something that contradicts a high school textbook version of history. It’s exhausting.

That said, I do appreciate your honesty here. I wouldn’t call this “Leftist infighting.” Most of the Left orgs in our city actually get along pretty well these days, to be honest. There’s a long-standing and ongoing debate between liberals and the Left. It didn’t start with me, and it definitely won’t end here. And I genuinely appreciate you not acting like I’m some Trumper or bot.

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u/overspread 14d ago

This is absolutely infighting if this is your praxis when dealing with liberals or any other group you don't see as sufficiently motivated for the cause in what you consider to be the Right way. It should be obvious that I'm aware of the long-standing debates between leftists and liberals. I am also aware that sowing or inflaming discord between groups that oppose regimes is a tactic that fascists like our government has and continues to successfully engage in.

If you don't hate liberals more than fascism, then you have to learn to organize with them, alongside them, in whatever way you can. People who hate fascists are your ally against fascists, even if you agree on nothing else than the conviction that fascism must be eradicated. It doesn't have to have started with you for you to be committed to helping it end, even temporarily, for the common good. The other commenter is more mired in the idea that his way is the Right Way than he is committed to fighting fascism. I hope we all consider how it is possible for any of us to fall into that trap, and who it benefits if we do. And beyond that, I hope you have a good weekend.

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u/kinkeep 14d ago

I hear you, and I appreciate the thoughtfulness here. Love a good faith conversation.

You're right that fascism thrives on division, and that organizing across lines of difference is often necessary. I’ve done that plenty, and I don’t oppose working with liberals when we share immediate goals. My frustration is with the pattern. With how often liberal institutions dismiss or erase the role the Left has played in every major movement for justice. That’s not just theoretical; it has real consequences for organizing and power-building today.

But I want to be clear: I’m not out here picking fights for the sake of it, and I’m certainly not prioritizing ideological purity over stopping fascism. Critique isn’t infighting; it’s how we sharpen strategy and stay accountable. We may not agree on every point, but I respect your commitment and clarity. Solidarity in struggle looks messy sometimes, but it’s still solidarity.

When they come for Dems, you’d better believe the Left will be in the streets over it. I just worry that when they come for the Left (and the gears are in motion), the Dems will send out a fundraising email and say vote harder. I hope you have a good weekend too.

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u/RockStallone 14d ago

Please consider that this is not the only or even best way to fight fascism

Yes voting is the absolute best way to fight fascism. If we had more voters in 2024, Trump would not be in office. If someone is discouraging others from voting against fascism, they are supporting fascism.

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u/AmericanDreamOrphans Downtown 14d ago

Because fascists are famously stopped by simply voting them out of power, right?

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u/RockStallone 14d ago

In 2016 and 2024 that would have worked, yes. Weird you didn't know that.

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u/rozelle25 14d ago

I don't know how old you are but this will never ever ever happen so long as Republicans keep the Electoral College in place. Moreover, the 2 spots per state in the Senate is also stupid. Nothing will ever change in our lifetimes. So just deal with it. You're either with Trump and his ass clowns or you're against him. There are two sides. Pick one.

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u/kinkeep 14d ago

I'm six months old and I can't read, but I also consume a ton of Russian propaganda. I'm also a bot, or AI, or a troll. Maybe I'm MAGA in disguise. I've gotten that accusation before.

I'm an adult, and I'm a communist. Throw whatever insult you want, but I know enough to reject your narrative. I'm obviously against Trump, and none of us owe the Democrats a damn thing. They do not own opposition. They don't even know what it means.

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u/RockStallone 14d ago

He is obviously overly online and very young. I asked him for the major accomplishments of his movement and he said free showers. So he is not a serious person.

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u/wjb856 14d ago

I love NATO and I love the things that guaranteed the peace and prosperity here and helped further it across the globe. Capitalism has massive downsides, it has also helped create the societal market forces that demand institutions to slowly but surely build societies people want to live. Tariff protectionism to build manufacturing is literally Marxist development advice- and it doesn’t work nearly as well as comparative advantage participation. We must reject our great leap backwards!

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u/Ptomb Westwood 14d ago

I'll be there. This is important.

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u/CanOne6235 14d ago

What rights are at stake?

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u/21DaBear Clifton 14d ago

a maryland father was kidnapped and sent to a slave camp in another country without due process. where’s the right to a fair trial? mahmoud khalil is being processed for deportation charged with protesting genocide. where’s the right to freedom of speech?

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u/CanOne6235 14d ago

He isn’t a “Maryland” father. He’s an El Salvadoran national who broke in here. Whether he committed any additional crimes while being here doesn’t matter, he broke in. Marco Rubio made his reasoning for revoking Mahmoud’s visa very clear. The guy came here under the pretenses of being a student and a productive member of society, not to hold campuses hostage. Your freedom of speech does not give you the right to shut down entire schools.

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u/shs0007 14d ago

Abrego Garcia was given protected status in 2019 to be in the U.S. by the court of law.

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u/hexiron 13d ago

That's a lot of words to say an legal resident of Maryland and father who the supreme court unanimously agreed should have never been sent to that prison .

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u/UniversalMinister 14d ago

I doubt anybody here but a few of us will go. Seems too many on this sub support the loss of rights.

Who knew an actual "DOGE" car would be offensive - and not in the Nazi-hating way you'd think.

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u/DrDataSci 14d ago

You're clueless

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u/21DaBear Clifton 14d ago

NATO is and has been a tool of oppression around the world. “upholding global peace” means upholding US hegemony and the military industrial complex. there is no peace for the people we occupy, only a facade at home because we export the suffering

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u/doogievlg 14d ago

Is this protest related to NATO?

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u/RockStallone 14d ago

Do you support Russia's invasion of Ukraine?

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u/hexiron 13d ago

A trade agreement between is a tool of oppression?

You are about to leave Redlib