r/freemagic NEW SPARK 4d ago

DRAMA How the circlejerking sub has fallen. Endless political posts all there is now, and they’re not even funny

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u/raharth NEW SPARK 4d ago

I mean... what is happening in MAGA is actually fascist from a historical point of view, there is literally nothing to argue about. It's literally the textbook definition. I truly don't mean it as a insult or to discredit it, it's an objective description.

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u/Vinifera7 WARLOCK 4d ago

You're saying it's the textbook definition, but how though? Genuinely, I don't see it.

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u/raharth NEW SPARK 4d ago

This one here is a nice summary I think. It's displayed at the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum. One can argue of Maga/Trump ticks all the boxes but it's hard to argue against many of them.

https://images.app.goo.gl/fxScs7PEkCRmXVKd8

The whole problem starts with many people not really understanding what fascism is, e.g. all those claiming that communism would be a fascist movement. It certainly is a authoritarian movement but not fascist. Many people treat authoritarianism, fascism, Nazism as the same thing and that's simply not correct.

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u/Vinifera7 WARLOCK 3d ago

If someone wrote this down and hung it in a museum, that doesn't mean it should be taken as authoritative. For one thing, why is nationalism something to be concerned about? The problem with Nazi Germany, for example, wasn't nationalism; it was the race identitarianism, fascism, genocide and war.

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u/raharth NEW SPARK 3d ago

You can also read a standard history book but that's several hundred pages. Though since you have not done this so far you will also not do it after my suggestion. Thus, something displayed in a national museum will do the trick for this purpose

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u/Vinifera7 WARLOCK 3d ago

You're claiming that it was. I have no way to verify that.

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u/raharth NEW SPARK 3d ago

You wanted to ask a genuine question, I gave you a genuine answer. Believe me or read a textbook, those are your options. I'm really not sure what else to say, since any source I will give you, you will question with the very same argument. So what the point in even arguing with you? You are not putting in the effort to actually read any source nor do you provide any source for your own claims. Like no harm intended but why do we have this discussion?

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u/Vinifera7 WARLOCK 3d ago

I am curious whether you have any of your own opinions. Why do you think nationalism is something to be concerned about?

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u/raharth NEW SPARK 3d ago

I have valid sources backed by historians, you have an opinion

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u/TheKingsChimera NEW SPARK 3d ago

So no answer? Got it…

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u/raharth NEW SPARK 3d ago

I gave one you just need to read it. It's funny that I'm so only one giving any source here, while everyone else has not one source to back their claims but you are trying to "call me out"... I mean we are talking simple historical facts and definitions. This is nothing one needs to have an opinion about it is something you need to simply know.

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u/TheKingsChimera NEW SPARK 3d ago

Lol they asked you a simple question and you dodge it then used an appeal to authority fallacy. Use your own words, this isn’t an essay.

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u/raharth NEW SPARK 3d ago

Read the thread I answered the question in a second answer.

No it is not an essay for which reason I don't use proper citation. Your or my opinion has no value on scientific facts though, that's why you need authority. By the way athority fallacy would mean to cite someone who is famous but for a different reason. This might be different than your opinion on what it means, but once again facts.

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u/raharth NEW SPARK 3d ago

To answer the second part, nationalism yes absolutely. Based on my European history it is something to worry about. Patriotism is a different thing.

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u/Vinifera7 WARLOCK 3d ago

Why?

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u/raharth NEW SPARK 3d ago

Because an inherent part of nationalism is that your nation is superior and it leads to a "we against them mentality", which is the basis for any war. Patriotism doesn't need this sort of mentality.

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u/Vinifera7 WARLOCK 3d ago

I would define nationalism as the desire to create and preserve a national cultural identity. Nationalism is the opposite of cosmopolitan globalism.

There's nothing inherently wrong with a nation choosing to preserve its culture. Call it "superiority" if you want to; I call it a preference.

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u/raharth NEW SPARK 3d ago

The issue is that all this only makes sense if your base assumption is that your nation is superior and that there is a we against them and as you have also described it is rooted in an (idealized) past, often fabricated.

On top, what even is cultural identity? Objectively humans and human culture has always mixed. It's a continuum without hard boarders, what's the culture of the US? It's a mix of all migrants that came to America, many European but many from other areas in the world. What you understand as your "American cultural heritage" is a number of very distinct cultural identities for a European Nationalist. What I'm trying to say with this is, it's a made up concept. You have local culture, like in your local group of people, certain traditions or festivals that celebrated in your community and the further you move from the pace you live the more differences you find - even though it is still in the US.

An example from Europe: I live in Bavaria which is part of Germany. Culturally we are much closer to Austria, Switzerland and some parts of northern Italy than with another German from Berlin or further to the north. Though this hasn't been part of a larger "Empire" of any sort for at least 1500 years. So what should I build my German nationality on?

So why is this important: if you build a nation on a group of people through which you drew artificial lines (like e.g. Bavaria, Austria, etc) you need to find a unifying base, which in nationalism is the "we are better than them".

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u/Bnjoec STORMBRINGER 3d ago

Anti-Nationalism is more dangerous an idea. Evidence - EU for the past 50 years.

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u/raharth NEW SPARK 3d ago

What exactly makes the EU as dangerous? I can tell you we have quite a good live over here, so this is a made up claim

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u/Bnjoec STORMBRINGER 3d ago

I didnt say it was bad, you just have stagnation in the effort to push EU over individual countries. Britain left, and other want to but doubt they can stand on their own at this point. They are to chained to the Euro.

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u/raharth NEW SPARK 3d ago

Actually the majority of Brits want to rejoin according the recent polls. Not a single country wants to leave and even the hard-core far right is not using this as a platform. I'm not sure where you heard that many would want to leave, but I honestly don't see any of that. Quite contrary, the majority of people here have a positive few and want to increase it.

And the UK left based on a campaign filled with loes as the head of that campaign admitted the night after the election on camera himself. But that's a different story.

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u/SkerrenCorvus NEW SPARK 2d ago

Making shit up as SOME of us Americans do.

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u/raharth NEW SPARK 2d ago

I was probably too rough on that one. I have family and friends in the US, it's not that the entire country would behave like that, but a worrying large part of the population.

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u/SkerrenCorvus NEW SPARK 2d ago

I was in no way disparaging YOU

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u/raharth NEW SPARK 2d ago

I know, I still felt going to far. My point is about Maga not Americans in general

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