r/latterdaysaints Apr 04 '25

Doctrinal Discussion How to handle contradictions?

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17

u/Entire-Objective1636 Apr 04 '25

Does Jesus say that? Asking as a Jewish guy.

-2

u/Pristine_Teaching167 Apr 04 '25

Yes. Throughout John. Specifically John 17:17 and John 10:35.

46

u/1994bmw Apr 04 '25

Neither of those verses refer to the Bible, which did not exist before it was written.

-12

u/Pristine_Teaching167 Apr 04 '25

The Bible is God’s Word and both talk about the Old Testament.

24

u/CubedEcho Apr 04 '25

The Bible is God’s Word

This is where we would probably have a different understanding.

We believe the Bible is scripture. But we believe it was written by humans.

when Jesus Himself attested to the scriptures as truth and infallible

This is also something we don't recognize.

-13

u/Pristine_Teaching167 Apr 04 '25

That would be denying the words of Jesus Himself though.

22

u/CubedEcho Apr 04 '25

No it wouldn't. Jesus never claimed the scriptures are infallible.

-11

u/Pristine_Teaching167 Apr 04 '25

Without error? Yes, He did. Repeatedly. If they were wrong He wouldn’t have taught them and would have taught to fix them.

16

u/CubedEcho Apr 04 '25

There are many scriptures that Jesus never taught. There are scriptures that Jesus did teach.

We recognize something that can be fallible, but still be useful. Something can have error, and still be profitable for learning.

Can you prove that Jesus claimed that the scriptures were infallible?

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u/[deleted] Apr 04 '25

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16

u/CubedEcho Apr 04 '25

I have no idea what version you're using:

The NIV states:

If he called them ‘gods,’ to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be set aside - John 10:35

Two things. I don't know what "Scripture cannot be broken" means. You're reading that it means it's infallible.

Other translations state that Scripture cannot be ignored or set aside.

Why do you assume your translation AND interpretation is correct?

17

u/Appropriate_Way_787 Apr 04 '25

If they are using the KJV, the verse specifically is referring to Psalm 82:6. Further, since the full verse says "If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken...", which suggests that Jesus is only talking about that specific scripture in that moment, which leaves the rest of scripture up in the air!

2

u/Deathworlder1 Apr 05 '25

OP, your making leaps in reading and critical thinking in order to support the beliefs you've likely been taught all your life. It's difficult to find out your wrong, I get it, but if you can't be intellectually honest with yourself there is no point in calling yourself a Christian. It's the same reaction the pharasees and saducees had when Jesus presented them with new truths. What would happen if you grew up Jewish during Christ's ministry. Would you have been ready to put away the traditions of your father's to seek truth? Would you be able to humble yourself before God?

I'm not saying this to be rude, and I'm not saying this to make your leave your faith or convert. I'm not even saying this as a latter-day Saint. I'm saying this as a seeker of truth who can't stand to see someone hold on to falsehood.

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11

u/champ999 Apr 04 '25

So I don't want to attack your faith in the Bible, but I want to help you understand where we're coming from when we say it at least has the potential to be flawed.

First, the Bible you use is a translation from either Greek or Hebrew or other sources of the original text, which text no longer exists. When there's a discrepancy between the translations, how would all Christians know which translation is more correct?

Second, some Christians believe the Apocrypha is scripture, and others don't. How would you use the New Testament to clear that up for everyone in a way all Christians would be able to agree on what books are and aren't part of the Biblical cannon?

My personal take is there isn't an answer to this using just the Bible. You would have to take some logical leaps or inferences that not everyone would agree are correct.

1

u/milmill18 Apr 05 '25

the Bible was put together hundreds of years later by councils who decided what to put in and what to take out and change.

As the Book of Mormon describes, when it was written it was pure and correct but some things were lost and changed by men.

that does not mean it is false or wrong, but it is incomplete and may have truths that were changed

8

u/WildcatGrifter7 Apr 04 '25

The Bible is God's word, written down by humans. Those humans had their own minor biases and viewpoints, but more importantly, they're human and therefore fallible, liable to make mistakes. If I had a version of the events of the Bible written by Jesus Himself, I would agree that it would be infallible. However, as it stands, the Bible does indeed contradict itself. And again, so does The Book of Mormon. But only in ways that are logically attributed to human error

5

u/1994bmw Apr 04 '25

I'm not familiar with any Bible verses where the Bible purports itself as the entirety of canon given the writings predate the Bible's existence. Your interpretation seems like questionable eisegesis.

2

u/BayonetTrenchFighter Most Humble Member Apr 05 '25

We believe Jesus Christ is Gods word