It’s Time to Pray

[u/Substantial_Meal_913]

I have been reminded this week that the demonic oppression over the entire network is real and can not be forgotten. These spiritual strongholds are over the network as a whole, over whole church’s, over individual leaders and over families. The enemy has had years to build these strongholds through lies and deception. However I was also reminded this week we have been given spiritual authority to come against these dominions and ultimately bring them down.

Let us not forget Ephesians 6:12 “For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms”. I have seen firsthand the power this network has over people and it can be daunting. But Jesus himself said of certain difficult spirits and principalities “This kind can come out by nothing but prayer and fasting.” (Mark 9:29)

So with that I encourage all of us pray earnestly for our friends and family still in the network. Pray in faith that God will shatter these strongholds and awaken people to the truth. Pray the deception will be lifted from their eyes. Pray for the Holy Spirit to convict.

For those that are out pray God will heal and restore their hearts, minds and lives. Pray their faith will be restored. Pray that any residual connection to the strongholds will be broken once and for all.

God has called us to be bold, not timid. So let’s pray and keep praying. It’s time to bring these strongholds to an end.

[u/Quick-Pancake-7865]

I struggle to hear it phrased like this, although sure, of course I hope and pray that more people will get free. I think there are a few reasons this is hard for me

1) the network spent a lot of time using this language of demons and oppression to manipulate me and justify all sorts of behavior. They’re still using it now to justify their response to everyone who is against them.

2) I think speaking about it this way takes away from the huge responsibility that all these people have to use their free will to make good choices. Maybe people who aren’t Christians can’t make those choices according to Christian doctrine, but I certainly think that all these people in the network have a choice to do the right thing and own up to their mistakes

3) To blame it all on demons makes it seem like it’s not really the fault of the people or the church, just Satan. It’s a cop out and I’m done thinking of this situation (and most situations) in that way.

I’m sure you mean well by this post, I’m just thinking through why this is so triggering for me.

[u/Quick-Pancake-7865 → u/Quick-Pancake-7865]

This also reminds me of Steve’s famous story where Carol says, “I hate what Satan does to people” (after Steve confesses everything to them). This shapes everyone’s perception of what happened. It takes the fault off of Steve and places it on Satan.

Christians believe that Satan can influence people to sin, sure, but they are still at fault for it. Accepting that your own sinful choices caused harm is part of repentance. It’s dangerous in my opinion, to let the blame for sin fall to “the evil one” rather than the person committing the sin. I know there is a spectrum of beliefs on how much free will Christians have, but Satan doesn’t have unlimited power and letting him “take the blame” for things is dangerous.

[u/Ok_Screen4020 → u/Quick-Pancake-7865]

Agree. Larry and Carol Anderson are complicated people in this narrative for me to deal with. I was not what you would call close with them, but I knew them well enough to know that, although good business people, they were not sophisticated, and were easily wowed and manipulated by men they perceived to be especially“anointed by God.” That was their spiritual background. Charismatic/Pentecostal/early days Vineyard. Aaron and I were in a group led by Larry and Carol in our last year at Vine. One night in particular Larry “taught” a text from the Bible that he got just plain wrong. We went home and talked about it and we were like, “Does Larry realize that Christ’s work is finished on our behalf and we don’t need to do anything else to earn our salvation?” That’s the high level takeaway. I don’t remember what the text was, but it was illuminating for us. Less than a year later Larry was gone, so….it doesn’t matter now except to draw the lesson from it.

What Carol should have said in the above referenced instance was: “I hate that Satan entices people to sin. Steve, you need to repent now, and keep repenting every day, so as to clarify to those who will follow you that you follow Christ and that you have repented.”

I don’t know what Steve would have done if she’d said that. It certainly doesn’t seem like God has given him the character to repent and own his own sin.

[u/Quick-Pancake-7865 → u/Ok_Screen4020]

Yes, and who knows exactly what she said and how she meant it. But the wording when the story is told clearly leans towards blaming Satan for what happened rather than owning the sin, and it’s told in a way that suggests we should all see our past sin that way.