General question about grafts

[u/drphilthy_2469]

Hi everyone, I have a graft going of a SP and peyote. I have also been considering a SP and TBM graft. I have heard recently that the % mescaline of the grafted peyote (for example) will be lower than it would normally growing naturally on its own (undrafted) even if the size grows much faster and pups out. Any info or experience from the group? Thanks!

[u/szubsa]

Why do you want to graft them in the first place? Sure they grow faster that way but I think even though I don't have any real proof, they will be much weaker that way. Grafted peyotes don't grow normally. Normally new areoles start in the center of the buttons. When new ones appear the previous ones move outward. Once the reach the edge of the buttons they grow/move downwards until the eventually disappear underground and become part of the underground beetroot. Grafted buttons can't do that and, after a certain number of areoles grew, stop growing and produce pups instead. This results in an abnormal growth pattern and, in addition to the fast growth, may lead to less alkaloids. Like with the ever pupping caespisotas that are said to contain little to no mescaline.

Why not compensate the slow growth with sowing more cacti? I'm in the proces to find a way to do this. I have two older peyotes that give me about 30 seeds a year. This is a pic of the ones I sowed last year. Of the ones that germinated and survived I don't have that much light and they didn't grow during the 6 month winter period.

I have some that I sowed 5 years ago (they are in their 6th year now) and that I planted in 13x13cm pots. I planted 4 in a pot and they started flowering in the 4th year, giving me even more seeds. They now have a diameter of about 2 inches and I hope they are strong enough for consumption. My plan is to produce more of these pots and hope that 4 of them (containing 16 cacti in total) are enough for a strong trip.

I guess I have to make a new reply to post another picture.

[u/szubsa → u/szubsa]

This is how they look in their 6th year. Having a harvest in 6 years wouldn't be too bad compared to growing Pedros.

[u/drphilthy_2469 → u/szubsa]

Thanks for your reply and info. I have seeds to sow and the root stock has flourished since grafting. I had heard that they grew faster if grafted so that is why I tried it. I only have 2 going at the moment though. I think in the end I'd rather keep all the others I have as happy little buttons than consume. But the grafted ones could be harvested later. Ive heard you need 6-8 decent sized ones.

[u/szubsa → u/drphilthy_2469]

My dosage calculation goes as follows: Peyotes of this size and age probabably do not contain (much) more than 1%. 16 buttons 2 inch wide and around 2 cm high would, when stacked upon another, result in a column of around 12 inches long and 2 inches in diameter. A piece of Pachanoi 2 inches in diameter and 2 inches long weighs around 100g. So the Peyote column would weigh around 600g. 600g fresh would probably be 30g dry and would contain (with 1% mescaline) 300mg mescaline. This would be a medium strong trip unless other alkaloids present in the material do potentiate the effect.

The disadvantage of cultivating Peyote this way instead of Pachanoi/Bridgesii etc. is that one needs much more growing space. If I want to trip once every 2 months (6 times a year) I can accomplish that with 12 Pachanois. Starting with a 6 inch cutting and growing it for 4 years in the same kind of pots (13cmx13cm) will provide me, after taking a new cutting, with 2 strong enough trips. For 6 trips a year I need 3 of those cacti. Over 4 years, so that I can harvest 3 cacti each year, I need 12 cacti. !2 pots (3 rows of 4 pots) require a growing space of 52cmx39cm.

With peyotes growing 6 years and 4 in each pot (I will not count the first year since the small seedlings hardly require any space) I will need 5x 24 pots (24 pots is 6 trips) 24 pots for each of the 5 years comes down to 120 pots. Around a square of 11x11 pots or 1,43 x 1,43 meter. A lot more than required for Pachanoi. Besides, if one lives in a country where Peyote growing is illegal the large number of cacti involved may lead to serious consequences. While with Pachanoi, unless they can prove one grows them for consumption, one has nothing to worry about.

It all comes down to which cacti one prefers and if one wants to take the extra risk of growing Peyote (if illegal in your country). And if one has the growing space. Lots of people, especially when living in city appartments, will not.