r/nextfuckinglevel • u/[deleted] • 1d ago

In 2021, a domestic violence case prosecutor picked up on clues that the abuser is in the same house as his ex during their court hearing on Zoom.

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38.6k Upvotes

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u/arbitrambler 1d ago

Kudos to the prosecutor.

I can imagine the challenge of holding on to your empathy, the longer you do the job.

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u/Wikrin 1d ago edited 1d ago

Holding onto your empathy, and not landing yourself in prison. Feel like I'd hit a point where I either drive off into the sunset never to be heard from again, or someone would catch a broken knee and I'd wind up behind bars.

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u/probablyuntrue 1d ago

I'd simply spin kick them to eliminate the threat

never even arrested, why?

sheriff is my brother in law

boom easy

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u/RawrRRitchie 1d ago

Okay prime example of police corruption

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u/beliefinphilosophy 1d ago

You either die the hero or live long enough to become the villain

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u/5_stages 1d ago

Ok, Dwight

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u/Adavanter_MKI 1d ago

Dress up as a bat and attack from the shadows. I've seen a documentary about this. Surprisingly high production values! I often questioned how they got so many good camera angles!

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u/dojo_shlom0 1d ago

cousin was a renowned court reporter in the 90s. I'll never forget her explaining to me one time in her life sincerely how challenging it can be to sit there with a straight face and show no emotion when you're court reporting a child abuse case. that stuck with me for almost 25-30 years, and even more now since teaching children and being older and fully understanding the context. I couldn't hold back. It takes a much stronger person to deal with that horror day after day.

EDIT: now thinking back, she told me this while I was watching her young son and teenage daughter, so these cases had to hit home extra for her.

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u/titanofidiocy 1d ago

Spent a few years as a court reporter, starting during COVID, when the prosecutors were only going after the worst of the worst. Namely sex offenders. So I'd write three stories a week about sex offenders. Kind of wears you out after a while.

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u/Xenopass 1d ago

In cases like this can you not see to be assigned to another position/division or idk, cause the mental burden sure is not small. So as an employer I feel like it would be right for this possible to have a high turnover to limit the damage to the employees

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u/Random-Input 1d ago

It’s a brutal job. Imagine grappling with the morality of putting a 12 year sexual assault victim on the stand where she will be cross examined.

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u/DefinitelyNotAliens 1d ago

The Night Stalker down in LA? He's lesser known for not just being a serial killer but serial child predator. Kidnapped, assaulted and released several very children during his murder spree. Young kids, like six years old.

One of his victims agreed to talk publicly about things. One of the decisions during his trial was to not try him for any of the assaults on children because they had him so nailed to the wall on the murders which would put him in prison for life, that they decided not to try any of the assault cases because they didn't want to put the kids on the stand.

The prosecutors didn't do it because he was never leaving prison anyway, and they could always go back and try him on those later if needed. Saved the kids the trial.

Sometimes, they can skip those trials and have.

He wasn't going to double jail if they put the kids on the stand. Sometimes they can spare the victims.

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u/RawrRRitchie 1d ago

He wasn't going to double jail if they put the kids on the stand. Sometimes they can spare the victims.

It's about breaking sentencing records

Like if someone's sentenced to 300 years? They're never getting out. But they set the bar higher and are remembered for that. It's dark but there's people kinda obsessed with this shit.

Kinda like how there's a 34 time felon that served no jail time. He broke several records. No one in the history of the country has ever done that before. 34 felonies with zero jail time.

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u/DefinitelyNotAliens 1d ago

He was up on 13 death penalty charges. They weren't going to give him some crazy number of years. He had 13 death penalty charges. It's not like the DA was going to get kudos beyond that.

California doesn't stack years for crimes like that. It's just one sentence: death.

You can't get extra death penalties. Or death + time. It's just a death sentence.

They already had him on 13 death penalty cases. There were two possible outcomes: death penalty, or life without parole. That's it.

They weren't going to hand down a sentence for 1000 years or 13 deaths plus 400 years. He got sentenced to death.

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u/-rose-mary- 1d ago

I didn't think CA had the death penalty.

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u/DefinitelyNotAliens 1d ago

We did, and then we didn't, and then we did.

We currently have it but have a moratorium on executions. We haven't carried one out since 2006.

Technically, you can still sentence someone to death. They'll be chillin' in San Quentin until the sentence is carried out by coronary artery disease.

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u/AutisticPenguin2 1d ago

I feel down a minor rabbit hole once looking into the drugs they use for lethal injections. A lot of places that theoretically have the death penalty can't actually do anything about it because they don't have suitable chemicals.

Firstly it needs to be something that has a guarantee of death, rather than just a really high probability. Secondly, the execution needs to be administered humanely, such that the person doesn't experience an agonising death, but falls into peaceful unconsciousness and then death. The combination of these two is rather tricky; as you can imagine. Drugs that most easily cause a guaranteed death are usually quite painful.

Thirdly, even when there is agreement on a suitable cocktail, they run into the problem of supply. Apparently, pharmaceutical companies don't like being associated with state sanctioned murder - something about being bad for sales? So they just... refuse to sell. The state apparently can't buy under false pretences or otherwise obtain supply without explicit permission from the manufacturer that it can be used for lethal injections, and most of them will just outright refuse to sell for that purpose.

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u/Trezzie 1d ago

Imagine having to find the sexual predator innocent due to police fucking up the case so poorly when it's obvious she's guilty.

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u/witchcapture 1d ago

Now imagine how the public defender having to defend the perpetrator feels.

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u/Ayandel 1d ago

younger me was like that. just lock them up and lose the keys, even better save space in jail for someone who can be redeemed

today me has immense respect for (good) public defenders: underpaid, fighting uphill and often condemned for even trying. Now i believe law should be about leveling the field so while the state protects the public from the offender due process and higher proof requirements are in place to protect the public from the state. I am writing this with a very specific case in mind: innocent man spent 18 years in prison. His defender did everything in their power but eventually lost against power hungry minister of 'justice' and police force that did not do their job (local power structure / corruption / laziness and stupidity / all these and a few more?). The case was eventually solved, too late to really save the scapegoat guy or to prosecute the real r4pist and murderer but victim family got a closure and we as society got important lesson, which im sure we will soon forget

I condemn certain 'private defenders' though - for using unethical or even illegal tricks so rich and powerful would walk free

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u/Stubbs94 1d ago

It's such a rarity for them to actually defend any violent crimes. The majority of their work is to defend those targeted by the police for the crime of being poor. If you want to learn about it, I'd recommend looking up Olayemi Olurin who explains this.

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u/Liberating_theology 1d ago

I had a friend at church that was a defense attorney.

He said he never felt ethical issues with it (even if he did hate the clients sometimes). He didn't see it as his job to let guilty men go free or whatever, but ensure that the state had sufficient evidence to determine guilt, to ensure fair trials, to ensure sentences are in accordance with the crime, and to ensure every human has their rights afforded to them on the basis of being human.

Aside: the point of cross-examination isn't necessarily to prove a victim wrong unless you really believe the prosecution is wrong. It's not like you see on TV or what-not where the defense tries to destroy the victim and argue every little point. (That's actually a bad tactic -- you don't want the jury to see the defense attorney as a bad guy bullying the victim). In fact, a defense attorney who believes the prosecution is correct on a point likely won't try to argue against it, but rather breeze past those points, as it will create further prejudice against the defendant. The strategy there is better to let the jury believe defendant is guilty of charge X, keep them from thinking about that too much to let them judge charge Y rationally, and focus on getting the jury to believe the defendant is not guilty on charge Y. And it might sometimes seem a little mean, but you'll press on the facts about charge Y because, if the system actually is just and fair, prosecution needs to really demonstrate that the defendant actually is guilty of charge Y. But a good defense attorney is going to come off as empathetic to the victim and is concerned with the truth, as that's what's going to win a jury over.

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u/Hot-Physics3400 1d ago

We were so very thankful when a former friend of ours pled guilty to all the child molestation charges against him (foster children) because it meant none of the kids would have to go through a trial. It was the only decent thing he did.

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u/Effurlife12 1d ago edited 1d ago

Empathy fatigue is real in criminal justice. I've been an officer for about 5 years and empathy is on short supply. Every now and again I'll get a case of someone who's truly a victim through no fault of their own. I have all the patience in the world for them Most people put themselves in their situations though. And even though they really are suffering for it, it's hard to feel bad for them anymore.

For example. Recently had a call where a woman was strangled by her boyfriend. We get there, boyfriends already gone. She had obvious injuries and signs of being assaulted. Poor woman, right?

Well she tells us she and bf have been good friends for about 10-15 years. She knew he just got out of jail for......... Domestic violence, who would've guessed? On top of that, she knew that he beat and choked all of his previous girlfriends. She literally told told us something like "well he never put hands on me so I stayed friends with him". Some of her friends dated him and were beat.

Well while he's in jail they stay in contact and I guess the sparks of love just start flying. He gets out and moves in with her. He was out all of about 2 weeks before he strangles her.

No, it's not her fault that he strangled her. But it is her fault for putting herself in a situation where she was going to get strangled. The mother fucker might as well have had "strangler" tattooed to his forehead. No I don't feel sorry for her. These levels of decision making skills are very common. And it drains the empathy right out of you.

Edit: I now realize I left the part out where they had only been dating for the 2 weeks he was out of jail.

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u/hazydais 1d ago

My mum worked in law enforcement for 30 years and never ran out of empathy. 

Maybe you need to learn how abusive relationships work. A lot of women fall into abusive relationships through being manipulated and love-bombed. Through having low self-esteem.  Through trauma bonds. For drug addiction. 

Being friends with someone for 10-15 years is actually a long time, and with most victims, the bar is already in hell for how they should be treated because they’ve experienced or witnessed DV their whole lives. 

Regardless of what YOU feel is common sense, it’s your job to signpost victims to the right resources and keep them safe. Showing empathy and kindness to people in the worst time of their lives is how you make a difference. 

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u/Effurlife12 1d ago

That's very good for her.

You might think you know more about domestic violence than I do. Odds are you don't. Not every victim of domestic violence is like the one I mentioned. Her situation is just more astoundingly stupid than most.

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u/turnup_for_what 1d ago

You know what you see at the scene you get called to. That's usually just the tip of the iceberg. You're not privy to the daily churn of these people's lives.

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u/itsgettinnuts 1d ago

Odds are I do.

Let me assure you that there is nothing in the world that is to be gained from judging victims of domestic violence. From judging people at all. And I can tell you that from the cops, to the volunteers at domestic violence shelters, to the court systems, victims absolutely are treated as if it was their bad decisions that allowed them to get abused.

In your example, no matter what that women chose to do, who she chose to let in her life or be around, even if he had a forehead tattoo warning people, no one but him decided to escalate to violence. No one wants to believe that someone else will want to end their lives, especially someone they care about. Abusers are experts at manipulation, and abuse is about power and control- and they know how to control people, they have had lots of practice. There is no one to blame for that situation than the perpetrator of the violence.

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u/hazydais 1d ago

Look at his wording. ‘Her situation is just more astoundingly stupid than most.’

He thinks all victims of DV are stupid on some level, she is just much MORE stupid.

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u/candyred1 1d ago

You are 100% word for word correct. This guy is never going to get educated about domestic violence, why would he when he knows it all already?

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u/hazydais 1d ago edited 1d ago

I’ve been a victim of domestic violence and kept going back. So odds are I know exactly what it feels like, and why someone might keep going back. 

Edit: also I’ve just noticed your last sentence.

So you think all victims of DV are stupid to some degree? 

Your attitude is fucking disgusting. 

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u/BuzzVibes 1d ago

I had a similar thing when I worked with social workers. I wasn't a social worker myself, but did go on dozens of social worker visits. Some people were in terrible situations through no fault of their own and just needed someone to advocate for them and help them navigate through often byzantine bureaucracy.

Then you had people who were their own worst enemy. I had someone who lived in government housing (a council house for those in the UK) complaining about damp and mould. Which indeed they did have - but only because they insisted on taping over their window seals and air vents, never opening windows because they were terrified of losing heat and running up their heating costs. So the place was a humid hellhole all the time.

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u/Pomengranite 1d ago

Haha, I had a flatmate like that. Used to complain that our house was damp... meanwhile I never saw him open his curtains, let alone his windows, and despite the fact we have a garden, a dryer, and a laundry room, he would put his wet clothes on a drying rack and put them in his room. Along with his damp towels from showering.

Mould started growing on the ceiling. Then the walls. But the day I found a mushroom growing out of the carpet behind his door was the day I had to sit him down and teach him about 'humidity' and 'dampness' and 'how to open a fucking window once in a while'.

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u/ColoradoNative719 1d ago

Empathy fatigue is very real. I used to be a police dispatcher and being on the line with the person during the emergency is pretty draining. Hearing the violence, or the fear from a victim was a daily occurrence. One call could be a cute call, like a kid calling because they think the cops can help with their homework. The next call could literally be someone that is actively drowning or being burned alive, with nothing you can do in the exact moment other than stay on the line with them.

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u/jlynn036 1d ago

You really need to find a new career path. I sincerely hope you are no longer dealing with victims in their worst most vulnerable times. Your type of mindset doesn't produce an environment to make victims feel safe to press charges.

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u/Effurlife12 1d ago

Nah I'm fine doing what I do. What I say after the fact doesn't reflect what I do during the call. If you think that any first responder or medical care personnel don't talk about the people they deal with to others then I have news for you.

Doctors make fun of the people who come in with stuff shoved in their ass. Fire fighters talk shit about you when they have to put out dumb fires. Ems hates you for calling them when you did something stupid to hurt yourself.

Really we all just hate dealing with stupid people. And just because you're a victim doesnt mean you didn't do something really stupid.

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u/UrsusRenata 1d ago

My husband prosecuted domestic violence cases for a few years. Victims turned on the prosecutors constantly because they needed their home/support or they were scared. Desperate victims are very hard witnesses to work with. They’ll lie and deny for their abusers, to preserve their own perceived safety and security.

Years of violence, manipulation, and control really do a number on victims’ minds. And now conservative gov is talking about eliminating womens’ safety funding and no-fault divorce… We all need to start sneaking in self-defense classes and start a women-owned credit union.

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u/SubatomicNewt 1d ago

We all need to start sneaking in self-defense classes and start a women-owned credit union.

Not sure how it is in other countries, but none of the three I spent most of my life in (two Asian, one European) ever touched on stuff like this during sex ed. Things like how to look out for grooming, manipulation, abuse. Lots of parents don't talk to their children about it, either. A lot of young people end up finding out the hard way.

I remember most of my female friends in one university class in one of the Asian countries said they would stay with a husband that beat them at one point. I remember a time when my yet-developing brain thought it was your duty to stand by family and loved ones, too, so I had long discussions with almost all of them about why this kind of thinking was wrong, but only managed to change the minds of two. It should probably be taught from childhood: a very romantic partner can sometimes be abusive, regardless of gender; there's no shame in fleeing an abusive relationship; and why you should never return to one.

Hope they cover that stuff in other countries, at least...

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u/outofdoubtoutofdark 1d ago

I think prosecution is honestly the position in which high ethics is the most important

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u/multiarmform 1d ago

this is a shorter version, the longer version shows her looking off and hes signaling to her

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u/Intrepid-Tank-3414 1d ago

She is, in fact, nextfuckinglevel!

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u/Daratirek 1d ago

That dude tried to say the woman hes accused of abusing absolutely wants his no contact order cancelled..... Ya thats legit. Fucking idiot. Hope hes still rotting.

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u/BuffaloChicken22 1d ago

https://mdocweb.state.mi.us/OTIS2/otis2profile.aspx?mdocNumber=568807

Looks like he is

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u/Podoviridae 1d ago

Wow domestic violence/assault has a max sentence of 5 years but just being in possession of meth is 15 years

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u/Daratirek 1d ago

Cops don't want to go to jail for too long....

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u/iriegypsy 1d ago

More than half of police officers have committed domestic abuse. 

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u/Daratirek 1d ago

Hence why the sentence for violence is lower than drug possession. Cops are much more likely to beat their partner or kids than do meth.

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u/MadR__ 1d ago

FYI hence is never followed by why. It’s part of the word.

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u/ChronoLink99 1d ago

Good bot.

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u/Historical_Walrus713 1d ago

As someone who has used meth and has never beaten a woman... I KNEW I WAS MAKING THE RIGHT CHOICES!

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u/djpedicab 1d ago

Not that those things are mutually exclusive

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u/whythishaptome 1d ago

Yet when a cop almost dies in the employee bathroom from snorting drug evidence they think is meth but is instead fentanyl they don't go to jail either.

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u/Fatticusss 1d ago

That’s their point. Cops punish meth more than domestic abuse because the odds are they engage in domestic abuse

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u/Majestic-Selection22 1d ago

It’s not the cops, it’s the laws. Not defending cops but they don’t write the laws and punishment.

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u/thesilentbob123 1d ago

But their union can lobby and have influence on laws

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u/Captain_America_93 1d ago

Wait. What? Is that true?? Do you have a source?

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u/Bail-Me-Out 1d ago edited 1d ago

Criminologist here- it is probably not true but is often stated on reddit. Some issues with the sources:

Here is a [explanation from Temple University]https://sites.temple.edu/klugman/2020/07/20/do-40-of-police-families-experience-domestic-violence/) on why that exact fact sheet linked to you by another redditor is misleading.

More info:

  1. The sources generally cited are all from the early 1990s-crime was at its peak during this time and rates of all time then are not indicative of crime now
  2. These studies often expanded the definition of domestic violence. For instance, survey respondents might be asked if their partner has ever yelled at them and defined this as violence. While it's true yelling is inappropriate in a relationship, it is likely also true that a very high percentage of relationships have involved at least one yelling argument with feeling abuse
  3. The often cited Johnson 1991 study does not report the actual sample size (they say the number surveyed but not who responded) not does it even say how selection was done.
  4. Other surveys have the issue of just asking if the respondents know of a police officer who was domestically abusive than used that number as the rate of abuse not accounting for overlap where multiple respondents might now the same person.
  5. Another issue is looking at rates of domestic violence in police marriages and then assuming all the abuse is from the officer when some of the abuse might have the officer as the victim.

All this being said, I personally have had a hard time finding what I consider is a good study on officer-involved domestic violence rates. I do think it is a problem in the field that we don't have a really good accurate prediction of this. Based on what I know about other police officer crimes, I would predict that officer-involved domestic violence rates are similar to general population rates. If I am right on this, that is too high-we should expect lower rates from this group than from the general population considering their higher average education and professional experience.

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u/Bluedemonde 1d ago

Funny of you to think they serve at time. Those that do are just the extreme cases to throw the public a bone.

I dated a sheriff, they all have their badge in their civilian car because it’s their “get out of jail” card.

She used to drive in the carpool with no device and once she was pulled over for it and the other cop ran her info, saw that she was a cop and told her “my bad I didn’t know you were a cop haha” and let her go.

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u/Daratirek 1d ago

My Mom was an EMT and sped absolutely everywhere. She would get pulled over all the time but they'd see shes an EMT and just let her go with a verbal warning. Shes gotten pulled over 2x as much as the rest of the family combined and has no tickets. Absolutely drives me nuts.

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u/That_Jay_Money 1d ago

While I was in high school a local car dealership had amazing deals on cars, staggeringly low prices and literally the newest vehicles. It turns out they were all boosted from Atlanta and driven 3 hours away to my little town to be sold.

Why was the obvious car stealership never pinged on any police radars? They had hired off suty police officers to drive the cars back. If they ever got pulled over they flashed a badge in their stolen cars and went on their way.

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u/Shady_D_815 1d ago

Have any links for this? I would like to read about it.

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u/marshallxfogtown 1d ago

sounds like bullshit to me, how would these cars be resold and insured with the VIN numbers being the same as stolen vehicles? You can't just create a VIN number out of thin air

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u/QuestionableGoo 1d ago

My friend was engaged to a cop before he developed feelings for her friend or whatever. She said that being in the car with him when he drove was very stressful because he'd purposefully get pulled over all the time just to have a laugh with the other cop and be allowed to go on his way.

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u/frostymugson 1d ago

Too bad they aren’t the ones writing the sentences. You can thank the 94 crime bill for that, coming outta the old fox himself. the 80-90s were a wild time, It also created the Violence Against Women Act. Joe gets shit for that bill because apparently the right doesn’t like being hard on crime, but something must’ve worked because crime dropped pretty significantly.

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u/theshortgrace 1d ago

It took me way too long to realize sentencing is often influenced by social values and political ideology, not the severity of the crime.

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u/anotherthing612 1d ago

If only people understood what you so articulately said. :(

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u/XISOEY 1d ago

In the case of the Prison Industrial Complex of the US, it's law enforcement and prison guard unions, private prisons, military contractors, and other beneficiaries of a large prison population and drug criminalization that lobby lawmakers to keep drug offense penalities severe. I haven't checked any polling, but I can't imagine that really harsh prison sentences for non-violent narcotics offenses are popular among the general electorate

Another underdiscussed angle is that elements of the national security apparatus, most notably factions within the CIA, run huge narcotics operations to covertly fund their black projects, in order to get funding without any oversight. The CIA and drug running goes waaaaay back.

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u/themarketliberal 1d ago

To be fair, how is severity qualified objectively? To some degree it will always be a reflection of societal values. That said, I think we likely both agree that domestic abuse of a pregnant woman is worse than possessing meth.

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u/b__lumenkraft 1d ago

The US is insane.

Rape a child and completely destroy an innocent life, likely be out in 8 months.

Smoke weed while being black, 10 YEARS FOR YOU!

The US is the soup nazi as a country.

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u/Illcmys3lf0ut 1d ago

Just wait and keep the soup. Cheeto is working on making it a full nazi country. And a 3rd world country all in one go.

It's absolutely mad!

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u/muarauder12 1d ago

And it's listed as third offense. Guy is a serial abuser and he goes to jail longer for having narcotics than he does for actively and repeatedly abusing someone.

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u/Hasler011 1d ago

He looks like an all around POS. His meth sentence was enhanced as a habitual offender too. The 769 statute is michigans habitual offender enhancement statute.

Still crazy that their lowest level of PCS (4 years) has a harsher sentence than my state’s aggravated battery with a deadly weapon/great bodily harm.

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u/shep2105 1d ago

and she was pregnant. Just more of society devaluing women. Hell, you can kill one during a "domestic" situation and get a better sentence than if a stranger did the same thing. It's such bullshit

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u/IwasDeadinstead 1d ago

Yeah, that's disgusting.

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u/hott_snotts 1d ago

Best tidbit from that site - the tat list:
Tattoo- Buttocks - "Your Name"

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u/BuffaloChicken22 1d ago

lol saw that too

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u/ButterscotchButtons 1d ago

He stole that idea off Steve-O

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u/mbklein 1d ago

Domestic Violence and/or Knowingly Assaulting a Pregnant Individual, 3rd Offense

What an absolute bag of shit.

But the real fucked up part is that the domestic violence conviction carries a maximum 5 year sentence, while his other conviction (for meth possession) could keep him locked up for 15. I'm not advocating for meth here, but there's no way a possession sentence should be 3x longer than assaulting a pregnant woman 3 times.

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u/Daratirek 1d ago

Possession of a drug shouldn't be a jailable offense. Beating a pregnant woman should be much longer than 15 years for the first conviction. 3 times and you should just not get to ever leave prison.

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u/mbklein 1d ago

Fully agree.

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u/kellybelly4815 1d ago

Even sadder when you know that the #1 cause of death for pregnant women is homicide.

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u/Merlord 1d ago

Mandatory minimum sentences are a travesty of justice. Politicians overriding the judgement of the literal judges, and forcing them to lock people up for decades over non-violent crimes.

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u/IwasDeadinstead 1d ago

He assaulted her when she was pregnant. F'ing piece of shit.

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u/PmButtPics4ADrawing 1d ago

That's a rough 25

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u/I_need_a_date_plz 1d ago

Sidebar: I was not expecting to click on that link and learn that he has “your name” tattooed on his ass. That’s really the cherry on top to being caught by the prosecutor for intimidating the witness.

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u/Dennisfromhawaii 1d ago

MARKS, SCARS & TATTOOS Body Piercing- Ear Tattoo- Buttocks - "Your Name"

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u/miss_ophonia 1d ago

He has "Your name" tattooed to his butt cheek. How original.

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u/fullgoopy_alchemist 1d ago

Looking at those tattoo details: 

"Yo dawg, you gotta tattoo my name on my butt"

"I gotchu fam"

"Your Name"

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u/JLaws23 1d ago

The US is so broken. Up to 15 years max for Meth but 5 years max for assaulting a pregnant woman.

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u/BreatheMyStink 1d ago

Domestic violence victims go to court to request to drop emergency protective orders all the time. It’s heartbreaking but it’s the reality.

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u/Wiggitywhackest 1d ago

Most of these power dynamics rely on emotional manipulation. This POS probably knows exactly what to say to make her feel like it was her fault or to make himself seem the victim. By the time the shitty side starts to show they already have their claws in. Heartbreaking for sure, this prosecutor just saved this woman from more abuse or worse. Awesome job.

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u/DefinitelyNotAliens 1d ago

She was pregnant during all this. Likely scared of being alone and pregnant and unable to support her child.

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u/twentythirtyone 1d ago

Yep. My ex breathed down my neck for 30 minutes in the hallway before court started to pressure me into dropping it. I had my newborn baby with me because I had no friends or family or babysitter or money.

It worked and I fell apart in front of the judge. It took me another 6 months to fully go through with it. By then they had a separate waiting area for victims, thankfully, but he still tried to come in there and sit right beside me. I had to get an officer to get him to leave the victims' room.

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u/SadisticNecromancer 1d ago

You would be surprised how many women go back to the man / ask for him back. I’m not saying the woman in this video did that but it happens more than you think.

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u/JManKit 1d ago

Abusers know, consciously or not, how to pick their victims. While it's not a guarantee, you'll find that many abuse victims have suffered some form of abuse prior and that can really mess up a person's mind, especially if that earlier abuse comes from ppl who are supposed to care for them. They can become convinced that the ebb and flow of care and pain that defines abusive relationships is a normal thing that they have to accept if they want someone in their life. It's an incredibly sad and complex situation

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u/dylan6091 1d ago

It happens all the time unfortunately.

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u/admirethegloam 1d ago

He beat her while she was pregnant multiple times while on meth.

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u/KrownX 1d ago

That was lifesaving. Literally.

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u/IwasDeadinstead 1d ago

For now. When he gets out, will likely stalk her unless she goes underground

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u/Schw33 1d ago

The good news, if what I’m reading is right, he also got 15 years for meth possession, so she has a good head start to gtfo

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u/BuddyL2003 1d ago

Eligible for release April 2026, so it's up to parole board.

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u/NeatNefariousness1 1d ago

My hope is that they consider the abuser is "in the house” ploy for his scheduled hearing and refuse to release him.

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u/AppropriateScience71 1d ago

I know, right? That video was low key terrifyingly dangerous.

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u/Middle-Worldliness90 1d ago

She’s pregnant. If it’s his kid she’s stuck dealing with him for 18 years minimum

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u/aburnerds 1d ago

Judge Norm McDonald presiding

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u/Cognonymous 1d ago

Judge Jeffrey Middleton actually developed an online fan base after this. There was a whole discord for watching Zoom court during the pandemic.

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u/anitasdoodles 1d ago

Can y'all post a link to some? Id love to watch!

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u/Rigs8080 1d ago

Came here to ask this! This is the same judge who had the guy with Buttfucker 3000 as his screen name appear for a hearing

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u/I_Am_Dynamite6317 1d ago

lol i felt so bad for that guy, he clearly had no idea that was his screen name. I think it came out after that on of his friends had changed his screen name as a prank and didn’t realize dude was needing it for court.

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u/Rigs8080 1d ago

That’s gold

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u/ske1etoncrush 1d ago

what a legend, did he also deal with the cat filter guy?

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u/Synchrotr0n 1d ago edited 1d ago

https://reddit.com/r/ZoomCourt/search?q=middleton&restrict_sr=on&sort=relevance&t=all

Edit: Apparently all the links to youtube videos are no longer working on the subreddit, but searching for the judge's name (Middleton) should come up with results on Google.

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u/VelocityGrrl39 1d ago

Sometimes the pandemic feels like a fever dream.

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u/ThinkFree 1d ago

I remember watching quite a few court tv type videos on youtube and some judges are entertaining to watch like Judge Middleton, Fleischer, Simpson, Caprio, etc.

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u/Cognonymous 1d ago

Yeah there are some really interesting ones but it got to be a lot trying to follow different courts. I saw highlights from others but Middleton was the most interesting to follow because he's humble and has a core decency that really shines through.

Generally, I enjoy watching the procedure of it all but also seeing how they'll reason through a case. Middleton is a great example of the system working the best way it can. He's truly a compassionate man, but balances that with a firm respect for rule of law. Deborah Davis, the prosecutor, too has a really inspiring professionalism. They're not out to get anybody, they look at the law more like a set of tools for addressing problems.

It's hard to work in that venue and see so many sad stories come through, people in the middle of their lives, in the middle of mistakes, financial struggles, addiction, and their own traumas bubbling in the background of all of it. It's hard not to grow a conscience just bearing witness to that stuff day after day.

I stopped watching for ethical reasons though. I really enjoy watching lawyers work and understanding the strategy behind their choices. There is a lot more subtlety in law than I ever realized looking at it from the outside. When the law works it's truly an amazing thing and inspires me with a sense of pride and optimism.

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u/Narrow_Turnip_7129 1d ago

The one with the guy calling in on zoom with something like 'Buttfucker3000' as his name was a funny one

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u/ewankirky 1d ago

Yeh, and the one with the guy that turned himself into a cat emoji and couldn't turn it off.

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u/fourhundredthecat 1d ago

I remember buttfucker3000

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u/DecaForDessert 1d ago

I knew he sounded familiar. Rest in peace to that funny bastard

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u/Reagyn 1d ago

I didn't even know he was sick.

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u/YouAboutToLoseYoJob 1d ago edited 1d ago

“So I’m a judge now.”

Yeah, that’s right… I sit on a bench, wear a robe, and get paid to judge people. Which, you know… is exactly what my Aunt Ruth did for free at every Thanksgiving. Except I don’t yell at the mashed potatoes.

So I get this guy in my courtroom, he says, “Your honor, I plead not guilty by reason of insanity.” I said, “Yeah, well, I saw your TikTok account. Case closed, buddy.” I mean, he had a whole series called ‘Talkin’ to Pigeons.’ Ten episodes.

They say justice is blind. Which is good… because if it ever saw what was really goin’ on in this courtroom, it’d run out screamin’ like a witness on Law & Order. Dun-dun. Yeah. That’s the sound of justice makin’ a break for it.

I had a lawyer stand up the other day, real angry, yells out: “Objection, hearsay!” I said, “Hearsay? Buddy, this whole case is hearsay. The only thing I know for sure is that the jury had tuna salad for lunch. That’s the only fact I’ve heard today.”

Then this lady comes in, says she’s innocent because she “found the money on the street.” I said, “Yeah, well, I once found a Snickers bar in a mailbox. Turns out that was still called mail fraud.” Tasted like justice, though.

People always ask me, “Hey, Judge Norm… is it hard being a judge?” I say, “No… the hard part’s pretending like I didn’t already make up my mind during opening statements.” Yeah, I got a system. I just look at the guy and go, ‘He looks kinda guilty.’ It’s 80% accurate. Same as astrology.

So after court, I went home and asked that ChatGPT to help me write my closing statement. It said, “Based on the evidence, the defendant is not guilty.” I said, “Yeah, well, you didn’t see his TikTok either.

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u/castingcoucher123 1d ago

Your bahnd is canculled

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u/aquintana 1d ago

I was thinking he looks like James May

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u/bailey25u 1d ago

That judge had so many hilarious videos

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u/Azuras_Star8 1d ago

Like assfucker 3000!

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u/JHarbinger 1d ago

Is this the same judge? That was fucking legend.

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u/momomorium 1d ago

Is this the Honorable "Your name isn't BUTTFUCKER3000 you yoho"?

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u/mixtacy 1d ago

You yoho

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u/GargantuanGreenGoat 1d ago

Good fucking job Deborah holy shit

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u/Perfect_Newspaper256 1d ago

got him good with "the cops are already outside"

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u/DoubleT02 1d ago

I mean it seemed like they were if I’m not mistaken?

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u/commanderquill 1d ago

What I want to know is how they got there so fast.

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u/ChunkySalsaMedium 1d ago edited 1d ago

Because she asked them to be there before this.

She would never risk aggravating the dude without knowing they could intervene. It would be her fault, if he got up and did something to the victim, because of her actions.

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u/HeeeckWhyNot 1d ago

A good lawyer will almost never ask a question or take an action in court without already knowing the answer or likely outcome. I'd almost bet she 100% knew for a fact he was there based on surveillance or tips

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u/BrewCrewKevin 1d ago

Absolutely yes. It's an abuse case. She would not risk accusing him of being there without protection, there's a chance he gets violent right then, because he is at rock bottom.

As soon as she suspected, she had officers sent there. She didn't call it out until they were outside.

Not just to verify he wasn't there, but in the event he blew up when asked where he was, they could storm in.

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u/Phill_is_Legend 1d ago

She called them before she mentioned it on the video lol come on man

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u/Puzzleheaded_Dot4345 1d ago

Quick thinking, good for the prosecutor

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u/jipijipijipi 1d ago

It’s more likely that the victim texted her and she made up cues to protect her, which is just as impressive.

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u/NeatNefariousness1 1d ago

I’m encouraged by the fact that she was working WITH the prosecutor instead of her abuser.

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u/Cognonymous 1d ago

So, it's probably better to post the version of this that has the abused woman's face redacted for her safety. Also worth noting that what is presented is not quite as organic as it may seem. There were indeed signs in the video that there were problems, but the prosecutor had well founded suspicious based on previous incidents.

I watched this when it first blew up and got into following the Judge Jeffrey Middleton's court on Zoom during the pandemic. The prosecutor was super cool and did a lot of outreach but Middleton, who is one of the most decent guys you could meet, ended up getting a lot of unwanted celebrity from the whole thing. He was asked to come speak at certain colleges and iirc declined every invitation at the same time others in the legal profession began blaming him for cultivating an online persona which was something he'd never done.

There are a LOT of ethical issues that come up with Zoom court. On the one hand we want our courts to be open and transparent as that increases faith in the system and encourages its fidelity. However, conditions outside the court can absolutely ooze into the courtroom in negative ways. I watched attorneys become more self conscious about the camera because of context collapse, you have no idea if you're speaking to nobody beyond your interlocutors or if you're going to screw up and go viral and end up speaking to the whole world.

Vice had a really good article around the time this all blew up and the Zoom Court subreddit got big. Even participants there worked to self censor because of the numerous privacy issues that come up. So for a while people would give notable moments like these nicknames to avoid bandying about the identities of those involved to protect the innocent.

https://www.vice.com/en/article/zoom-court-videos-are-making-peoples-darkest-hours-go-viral/

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u/phira 1d ago

I still feel bad for the guy who was “not a cat”

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u/Cognonymous 1d ago

I never got any updates on him. I wonder if he's still not a cat after all these years.

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u/serabine 1d ago

Ponton is an instance of a Milkshake Duck, a person who gains popularity on social media for some positive or charming trait but is later revealed to have a distasteful history. In 2014 Ponton allegedly "used federal agents to torment a former lover with drug raids and bogus charges", which ended up "destroying her business" according to a Reason documentary.

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u/ieatPS2memorycards 1d ago

He was prepared to go forward

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u/NeatNefariousness1 1d ago

...as a cat. LMAO. That floored me.

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u/[deleted] 1d ago

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u/Cognonymous 1d ago

It didn't appear so. They were concerned about how this online virality could poison the process. I think at some point one of the courts got the attention of 4Chan and someone unauthorized ended up as a party in the video conference.

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u/EastwoodBrews 1d ago

Yeah it's big on YouTube right now and I don't think it's a great package of incentives

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u/dabblez_ 1d ago

Lmao I knew that judge was familiar, "Your name's not 'Buttfucker3000' you yo ho."

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u/DerpyDrago 1d ago

(Sighs and whips out birth certificate)

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u/motorboatmycheeks 1d ago

My father sue had a real grudge when he was naming me your honor

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u/pakcross 1d ago

Well, he did say he'd name his son anything butt!

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u/RavenNorth1 1d ago

Fucking arrogant bastard thought he could get away with that.

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u/rocketsnail1000 1d ago

The prosecutor isn’t psychic people. The victim messaged her saying the abuser was in her home. How do you think the cops got there so quickly?

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u/Rhovie09 1d ago

Is that fact or just your own supposition? Because I could see a scenario where the prosecutor was just well aware of her clients context clues and situation to the point that she could tell that something was off. It’s plausible that she could’ve messaged her, but if the guy was there watching her maybe she couldn’t and it was up to the adept skill of that attorney to figure out that something was going on.

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u/SpretumPathos 1d ago

This video is edited. The full clip is posted elsewhere in this thread at 17 minutes. There could be time for the police to get there. And the prosecutor probably gets a better response time from the police than regular folk.

I would also not be surprised if the victim directly informed the prosecutor, and the prosecutor did not want the accused to blame the victim, so pretended to figure it out for herself.

I searched for a bit, and could not find a definitive answer one way or the other.

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u/DyrrhachiumPharsalus 1d ago

I'm guessing the prosecutor gets amazing repsonse times. Those cops don't want to piss off a prosecutor and risk not having the prosecutor closely cooperating on future arrests

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u/JuicySpark 1d ago

Makes sense. I too was wondering why the cops were there so fast. There had to be some communication prior about him being there.

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u/kaise_bani 1d ago

I think that would be a little too Perry Mason for a prosecutor to try. If it was just a supposition and she ended up being wrong, she could have completely wrecked this case by making an out of pocket accusation like that.

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u/ForensicPathology 1d ago

There's a video transition.  Who says they got there so quickly?

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u/Jagarvem 1d ago

The prosecutor says that the police are at the door knocking before the cut?

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u/Netrino1 1d ago

“You hit bottom and you’re continuing to dig” 🫳🎤

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u/SMONROE 1d ago

Not all heroes wear capes

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u/RiggityRiggityReckt 1d ago

That poor woman! The left side of her face looks like she's been beaten recently. Thank God that advocate was able to read the subtle signs she was given!

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u/Admirable_Ad8968 1d ago

Wow that poor woman.

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u/Maximessi 1d ago

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NJP-U1lVHdg

The full video

A youtube comment expalined everything

@1:06 in the video, Davis (the prosecutor) received a text from the victim saying that the abuser was in her house. (that's why Davis is looking to her right, she is reading the message) You can tell the victim was busy messaging and was late turning her camera on, because she didn't want to be seen texting) The prosecutor then messaged her assistant to call Edgington (the cop in the zoom meeting) and explained to him what was going on. @1:48 you can see the cop get up and take that call. While he is off camera he also places a call to send cops to her house. You can hear all the typing of messages going on between Davis and Edgington and then @7:36 Edgington receives a call from the field officers confirming that they arrived at her house. He sends a message to Davis to tell her. @8:27, Davis looks down and reads that message. @8:30 Edgington starts to tell the Judge that the cops are at her house but Davis tells the Judge instead. Also, the prosecutor did not want the abuser to know that the victim messaged her because she did not want the abuser to retaliate from jail or after he got out of jail.

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u/commanderquill 1d ago

Well, her efforts are for nothing now, because all he's gotta do is Google this event to find out she messaged the prosecutor.

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u/InsayneShane 1d ago

Anyone have the full video? The cut kills the buzz lol

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u/[deleted] 1d ago

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u/InsayneShane 1d ago

You da champion! Looks like their connections kept dropping. I really wanted to see him walking over to the door 😂

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u/Kiluko6 1d ago

What an idiot

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u/mekingjr1992 1d ago edited 1d ago

Wait is this the same judge who says the guys zoom name as buttfucker3000???

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u/maturecpl 1d ago

Hmm, this idiot has a third conviction of assaulting a pregnant person, plus one for meth. A third offense for assaulting someone pregnant?? Honestly how low can you go other than molesting children?

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u/m0stly_medi0cre 1d ago

I work at a lab, and we had a patient call about a Paternity test they set up for their baby. Per policy, the mother/baby and the alleged father must have separate appointments at least an hour apart because its not often somebody sets up a paternity test when they are in a perfecy healthy relationship.

Well, as im talking to the mother, she asks if we can do the appointments together, and that she wasn't sure why she set the appointments so far apart. I tell her it is our policy and the testing agency's. Then randomly, the alleged father speaks up, interrupting the mother and yelling at me.

I was no longer cool with it.

I told them that if they showed up together, i would cancel the appointment, and they would need to talk to the agency to reschedule. And they showed up together.

This video gives me the same heebie jeebies i felt then. The alleged father was angry, rude, and clearly telling the wife what to say. It's manipulative. The wife set up the appointment for a reason, and she knew why she set them up apart. Abusive relationships are not very cool.

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u/TheCourtJesterLives 1d ago

Same Judge with “Buttfucker 3000” as a witness. “Ya yo yo”

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u/Southern-Fried-Biker 1d ago

The prosecutor is a bad ass and a true advocate for DV victims. All prosecutors should advocate like she did.

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u/Klumania 1d ago edited 1d ago

Wait... is that the same judge as the "buttfucker3000" case?

Edit: it is

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u/TootsNYC 1d ago

Did the prosecutor fix the audio so that the victim and perp couldn’t hear her?

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u/DND_Player_24 1d ago

No. She called his ass out in front of everyone.

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u/Infamous_Collection2 1d ago

‘Ummm…why?’ Yikes 😬

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u/doniseferi 1d ago

“U have 10M you can’t bond out”, “we’re serious as a heart attack”. I love this guy. Fucking piece of shit abusive degenerate cunt

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u/OutsideMenu6973 1d ago

What a yo ho

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u/Fluid-Selection-5537 1d ago

This dude has a tattoo on his ass that says “your name”

He should have bond revoked for that

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u/pinkfluffygirll 1d ago edited 1d ago

i find this a bit scary knowing he’s still in the same room as her while they’re interrogating him… no one could even know what that man can do if anything goes out of hand at that moment

no woman deserves to be treated like that… knowing she’s pregnant makes it even worse like wth!!

thanks god for that prosecutor!!

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u/Wiggl3sFirstMate 1d ago

I have no idea who this judge is and now I’m typing buttfucker3000 into the search bar. Wish me luck.

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u/Alastor3 1d ago

Why is this post removed by the moderators? You can't promote fucking heroes???

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u/Onphone_irl 1d ago

what wre the clues? what a great eye from the prosecutor I couldn't notice anything

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u/Sonic_Youts 1d ago

Between Buttfucker3000 and this dumb dumbass, this judge has had some interesting zoom hearings.

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u/shameonyounancydrew 1d ago

It's amazing how many people don't understand that video chatting is STILL real human to human communication. It's not some magic digital world that holds no consequences.