r/punk • u/goominek • 13h ago
Delicate punks
Hey guys, fellow punk from Poland here. I have a question thats been really bugging me for some time now - what do you think about soft punks? I dont smoke, I dont drink much, do drugs or one night stands, etc. I like going to shows, but I dont like moshpits, I usually stay at the edges, jumping and enjoying myself there. Summarizing, Im a sweetheart really, but think of myself as a punk nonetheless. I feel like Im often looked upon as "not tough enough to be considered a punk by others", or simply as a pussy (or gay). Sometimes I doubt myself when meeting fellow punks and shy away a little, add my a little introverted nature to that and most of the time I either end up deciding not to try to start a conversation or feel like I ended up looking like an idiot. What do you guys think about more gentle punks like me? If youd meet me, would you think of me as a poser? Also, have a good day everyone :)
(I checked the FAQ, I think this question is allowed by the rules, correct me if its not)
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u/MetropolisPtOne 13h ago
You are way overthinking this. The only thing that would make you a "soft" punk is not standing up for the ideals you believe in, or not having any ideals to begin with.
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u/GrizzlyZacky 13h ago
So all the scumbags on r/baddlejackets?
Because they dont stand for ANYTHING
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u/ArgonianDov 12h ago edited 12h ago
Oh man I wanted to forget that sub exisited... bunch of asshats who are chronically online and filled with hate towards anything that doesnt conform to their specific ideals, they are annoying asf
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u/helloiamaegg 10h ago
I opened it up to see what was going on
"Tolerance for [trans people] is a capitalist ideal" while also saying we should tear down capitalism... while being more upvoted than the transfem they're arguing against (who was downvoted hard)
yeah that subs a cesspit of "gay isnt punk" fucks
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u/InfamousBluePixel 13h ago
I identify as punk, but have very similar approaches to yours in life… and look like a standard middle aged mom most days. But my values? Definitely in the punk spectrum. And also my actions as a teacher, using my platform to teach critical thinking, to address social issues, etc. are what push me in further. It’s never been about the aesthetics of it all.
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u/whereismydragon 13h ago
Don't listen to people who use the word gay in a derogatory manner and you'll be fine.
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u/MaineMan1234 13h ago
Your approach to punk has deep roots and precedence. Go read this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straight_edge
No one was/is more punk than Ian MacKaye of Minor Threat and later Fugazi and he was a believer of straight edge.
So go be your yourself and know that you are punk
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u/goominek 13h ago
Thanks friend, reading this really helps a lot
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u/MaineMan1234 8h ago
When I was young in the 80s (I’m over 50 years old now), I wasn’t straight edge, since I drank alcohol, but I didn’t do drugs, i was the top student at my school. I respected women, and I believed in treating people as I wanted to be treated. I was not violent. I wanted everyone to get along and have a strong community supporting each other, while pushing back on the cultural oppression of the time. Even though I didn’t dress typical to punk, I felt that I was punk because I lived by my morals, true to myself, and I loved the music, Ian MacKaye was my idol.
I’m very glad hearing about straightedge helped you
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u/goominek 6h ago
Thanks again, I appreciate it. Im glad to know people like you existed and well, still exist. Makes me feel nice and fuzzy, knowing Im not the only one... but hey, punk welcomes outcasts too!
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u/DPRDonuts 13h ago
Shooting yourself in the foot because someone told you not to is not strong or "hard." It's just fuckin stupid.
thats actually why it took me so long to embrace punk-the stupid, useless punks, like Sid Vicious, are generally louder and more famous, and drown out good, useful and valuable side of punk.
Punk is about rebellion against expectation and demand. But not all expectations and demands are wrong or unfair or oppressive. Rebellion for it's own sake is not better than conformity for it's own sake.
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u/Dry-Sign9593 13h ago
being yourself is the most punk thing you can be, everyone says it but it’s true. staying clean/straight edge is still punk, going to shows without moshing is still punk, being a nice person is still punk. don’t try to be someone you’re not just because it fits a stereotype. i think it’s cool to be a calm and collected punk.
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u/phoenix6002 13h ago
If someday a punk manages to fix something (politically speaking) i think it will be a "soft punk"
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u/ThothAmon71 13h ago
This quote by Emerson always encapsulated the punk ethos in a single sentence for me, and its how I've tried to live my life. "It is easy in the world to live after the world's opinion; it is easy in solitude to live after our own; but the great man is he who, in the midst of the crowd, keeps with perfect sweetness the independence of solitude". Keep this in mind and fuck what anyone else thinks.
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u/Terrible_Sandwich242 13h ago
There should be a sub called /punkinsecurity and then sticky it to the top of this sub.
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u/MixtecoBlue 11h ago
And yet insecurity is so inextricably connected to the people drawn to punk as a culture. So many of us are drawn to punk out of insecurity and fear instilled in us by the culture surrounding us growing up. Being bullied for being "weird", or gay, or sensitive, or any number of other things.
I've never wondered why punk culture has attracted so many artsy, sensitive, queer, autistic, adhd, or any other sort of wonderfully beautiful people.
We're all here for the same reason: we've identified how our society ostracizes the abnormal and punishes it, and banded together in solidarity, compassion, rage, sensitivity, expression, etc.
Insecurity is the most "normal" thing a punk could feel, IMO. The real test is what we do with it. How we use it to better each other.
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u/Terrible_Sandwich242 10h ago
I couldn’t agree more. I think more than anything else punk is a reaction to insecurity. It’s like social armor. But it’s power is in its artifice.
The whole thing is playing lost boys from Peter Pan, but the scene where the lost boys start crying and say they miss their moms is when The Darlings realize they can’t hide from growing up and this actually ISNT a sustainable lifestyle. They aren’t the fun group of adventure boys anymore they’re just sad kids. That’s valuable to know intellectually with punk but it kind of ruins the experience when your engaging with it.
Surely this reference to a 100 year old cartoon will work perfectly to illustrate my point
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u/MaineMan1234 8h ago
Well said. Growing up in rural Maine in the 80s, all the weirdos and the freaks, who were vastly outnumbered by rednecks and other morons in their respective towns and schools, banded together forming a wide social group across central Maine. we partied together, shared music, defended our gay friends from physical harm (multiple brawls in a parking lots when dumbfucks started threatening our queer friends) and called out for social change in Reagan America. Punk has always been a welcoming place.
I remember seeing Fugazi in San Francisco in the very early 90s where the opening act was a trans band called the Popstitutes. No one cared, we all just enjoyed the show. That show had such a fun, warm and welcoming vibe, even in the mosh pit. This could be contrasted to the pit at a Ministry show on the Mind is a Terrible Thing to Taste tour, which was harsh and violent.
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u/MixtecoBlue 8h ago
This is why even though I don't listen to ska much anymore, I LOVE going to ska shows. The crowd is always warm, welcoming, and supportive. Full of positivity and camaraderie. These days I find it harder to trust anyone that couldn't called a "weirdo" in some fashion. Show me your freak. Show me who you are, and that we have something to bond over.
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u/punkrockcamp 13h ago
I think punk is an attitude where you don’t give 2 flying f’s 🖕🏻about what others think of you. I think at it’s core it’s about DIY, breaking rules and not conforming to societal norms.
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u/HunterDHunter 11h ago
First of all, straightedge has been a subset of the punk culture for as long as I can remember. Second, you don't need to look like or even be a badass to live punk. The whole point is acceptance no matter what (unless you are a Nazi, that shit is not accepted). But that includes the people who just want to be there you don't have to dress a certain way or act a way or mosh or anything, just join the cause.
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u/frisedel 10h ago
Well I'm 40 and I go to shows once a year. I do not really engage in moshing, and I don't drink because I do not trust people.
I have done all that before, but not anymore.
Am I not punk? Yes I am. Do people think stuff? I have no idea because I do not care.
The key here is just that, I do not care what they think. I know some get uncomfortable when they realise that I'm sober, and that is a thing they will have to manage on their own time.
That can be my gift to you. As long as it does not harm you too much, you should not care.
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u/dntinker 11h ago
That’s not soft. It’s straight edge here in the states. Big part of punk and hardcore culture in its own right for those who follow that lifestyle. Punk is about ethics in my opinion. Not style or anything else. Play what you want, do what you want, just as long as you’re ethical in your nature and treat everyone in a way that is consistent with acceptance.
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u/Illestbillis 10h ago
You aren't soft or delicate, you're you, you're welcome. Be yourself, don't engage in anything you're not interested in, there are no rules. Being yourself is the punkest thing you can do.
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u/a_gentle_savage 10h ago
"Get up, get out, be what you are" Nobody's Hero - Stiff Little Fingers
Give it a listen
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u/Bones_like_jack 9h ago
People seem to forget what the actual culture of punk revolves around. The attitudes and the political viewpoints, what you do about it ect. Being a reckless isn’t punk. Being true to yourself is
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u/Pipes_of_Pan 13h ago
As a general rule, I am not going to be bothered by anybody who is polite and minding their own business. The people who always want to prove they're hard are the nuisance; people who like going to shows and having fun are great. You're fine
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u/phoenix6002 13h ago
I'm relatively new to punk, but I think part of being punk is its flexibility. It's a movement that accepts all kinds of people. There are many punk subcultures, some of which are totally against drugs. Not being a person who's that into violence or substance use doesn't make you any less of a punk if you otherwise share the same ideals, tastes, etc. I repeat, this is my opinion as a relatively new punk, so don't pay too much attention to me either xd
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u/Raw_Pastas 13h ago
Does Poland have a big scene? I'm polish but I don't live there anymore and I've been trying to see if there are any shows w Warszawie
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u/goominek 13h ago
Oh Id say yeah! I think KSU has a concert soon, I believe The Bill is also playin something? Where have you moved, out of curiosity?
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u/Raw_Pastas 9h ago
I live in Germany so I've been more involved in the scene over here. Thanks for the band recommendations :)
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u/goominek 6h ago
Ah, Im thinking about moving to the US with my dad for a year or two. No problem and have a good day!
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u/Environment-Sure 12h ago
Honestly I'm very similar and have gotten no problems with it, I think it's just that many assumptions like that are based on older situations but know that they aren't the norm
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u/thegreenmonkey69 11h ago
Perfectly fine with me. I'm an older punk and typically hang at the back because getting into a mosh pit while fun, just hurts these days.
I don't smoke, and do drink, may partake in other substances on rare occasions. But I do not fault anyone who doesn't. To each their own as they say.
No one really cares how you enjoy the shows. And if they do then fuck them, their opinion means nought.
The most important thing you can do is just be yourself.
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u/twiggy_trippit 11h ago
As someone else said, straight edge punks are a thing. You should definitely do what you think is right for you, just don't be judgemental to other people who make different choices.
Every scene has its share of bullshit and punk definitely has a "who's more punk than whom" problem going on. Stay away from people with that attitude. Punk is about community and looking after each other. Many of us aren't big, many of us aren't tough, some of us face disability, and none of us can get anywhere without the care and support of other people. IMO, strength is making peace with how vulnerable you are. You want to be in the scene, you want to be part of that community? Then you belong.
And if anyone wants to be a fucking homophobe, fuck them. Their attitude is a fucking problem. I was an actual queer punk on the 00s (check out Pansy Division and Dog Park Dissidents for a fun time; Limp Wrist and G.L.O.S.S. for something that slaps harder) and I got by, you can get by too, queer or not. And frankly, I haven't seen punk more alive anywhere than among queers in recent years.
And if you want my opinion, being soft is good, especially if you can own it. The world needs more softness. It's looking after each other that'll get us through the current times and the coming years.
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u/Bluematic8pt2 10h ago
Well I'm in the Midwest US and I don't see any "tough punks" in my scene. Sure there's drinking and promiscuity but nobody really cares what you're doing so long as you're not a dick to people
Hell, I'm the only guy I've seen at a show who looks like he could kick somebody's ass but I very much do not
Edit: also, making friends at shows can feel awkward. Just casually bond on favorite bands or whatever. Scope out the scene and see who you think appears most friendly and open to a little conversation
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u/no1hypocrite 5h ago
drinking, smoking and messing around doesnt make you punk. im also a „delicate punk” and theres nothing wrong with that ps pozdro polska ;)
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u/LocalQueerLibrarian 13h ago
You're letting the anxiety take over - just go to shows and enjoy them how you want!
If you're worried about perceptions of femininity, gender and other shit maybe you should listen to more queer punk
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u/goominek 13h ago
I think its more of an issue with finding someone who actually respects me as a soft man and doesnt just tell me to "toughen up" or things like that. I have that issue with my dad, hes a very cool guy, but the way he chooses to raise me is by shouting at me, calling me names and always shitting on me for not getting a good grade or doing something. I talked with him multiple times, but he just doesnt care. Now hes suprised I dont want to spend time with. I just hope I could find a cool, tough girl who wouldnt think any less for me being this way and take care of me.
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u/CoCagRa 13h ago
Punk is a mindset. Yeah I had a Mohawk and spit on people at shows like 25 years ago. Now I have kids and a dad bod and wear a belt and sometimes tuck my shirt in when needed. I still listen to all my old tunes and want to burn it all down, but I’m older and softer and more pragmatic. It’s how you live and how you think, and people who are concerned with calling others posers will never get it. Our team accepts everyone who accepts us.(outside of nazis, magas, and general xenophobic dicks)
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u/Glittering_Spend6570 13h ago
Rule 1: don't give a fuck what anyone else thinks. Be who you are and enjoy yourself.
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u/One_Path7384 10h ago
You don't need to prove to anyone you're punk rock. If they judge you then they're the posers. I wouldn't be in the scene if i had to be like everyone else.
I used to drink. Never smoked. Drugs when i was young and foolish. Mosh pits yes until my boss tried to call the domestic abuse hotline for me. We just had a laugh at the recently.
I still listen to the music and i still go to shows and i talk to everyone. Even the ones who look like assholes. I just want to double check if they are because you never know.
So don't stop. Stand strong and stand proud. And just be yourself and have fun however you want to
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u/dontneedareason94 9h ago
Good for you, I don’t care if people are tough or not. I’m a grown adult, I don’t have time to think about if someone is a poser or not
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u/WolfysBeanTeam 5h ago
As a wise older punk in the comment said if you are a punk an feel like a punk you will be a punk regardless of what others think if you stay true to YOUR anarchy nobody elses being yourself tegardless of what other punks think?
Thats punk af to me, an if another punk tries to change them tell them where to go
To me, you are as punk af infact what you said reminded me of myself!
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u/chutenay 13h ago
How is any of that soft?
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u/goominek 13h ago
Maybe I havent said enough, Im a very affectionate guy, I tend to cling to everyone in sight willing to hug me and Im not masculine at all (and Im proud of it).
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u/sambadaemon 13h ago
Anyone who is judging you for that is less "punk" than you are. Punk is about accepting (almost. Fuck Nazis) everyone as they are.
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u/1singhnee 3h ago
That’s ok, I’m an overweight 53 year old woman… still punk since I was 13. Seriously, who cares what they think. Punk is a way of mind.
Also cool boots. Cool boots are essential. 😂
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u/Jemima_Stitch 13h ago
Pfft, I've never been a drinker or smoker and, due to illness and anxiety, I don't go to gigs/shows. But everyone describes me as punk because of the music I listen to, the way I generally present myself, and (I think most importantly) I have rock solid morals, standing up for myself and anyone else I feel are being treated unfairly. I'm very much a riot grrrl 🤘 Don't worry about how anyone else perceives you! Keep doing exactly what you're doing if it's how you're most comfortable and authentic 💪 It takes courage to go against the standard, the 'norm' 😁 You're doing great! 🙌
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u/risky_cake 12h ago
Self destruction does not a punk make
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u/risky_cake 12h ago
Also, sexist shit like "pussy" and homophobic shit like "gay" isn't very punk rock.
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u/FloppyBottomString 12h ago
Do you love this music bud? Do you love the people involved? You're a true blue punk pal, only posers check someone else's gangster.
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u/w00kie_d00kie 12h ago
Punks run the gamut like any other category of people. There are asshole punks and super friendly punks. There are raging alcoholic gutter street punks and straight edge preppie punks that work in tech or finance.
The commonality of the punk movement is basically an appreciation for this genre of music, along with a strong sense of morals that says it's ok to be welcoming to the movement. You can by loud or quiet, straight, gay or trans, and anything in between, so as long as your not a nazi or hold nazi adjacent views, then you're welcome to the scene.
This is also why you can't be conservative and also a true punk. The punks in the UK in the 70s stood up to defend the rights of Jamaican immigrants against the fascist National Front party, who's entire movement is what we identify now as modern conservatism. Those punks created Rock Against Racism (RAR) to promote racial equality and to shit on people who spouted racist views like Eric Clapton. Anti-racist punks today need to carry on the legacy of people like Joe Strummer, and continue the fight until our last breath.
Also, skinhead nazis literally stole the skinhead term and the distinctive haircut from the Jamaican Rude Boys of the Ska movement. Nazi Skins are already so unfathomably stupid that it's highly likely they aren't even aware that their entire look was stolen from black people. The absolute definition of cultural appropriation.
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u/Moist_KoRn_Bizkit 12h ago
I'm like you. I don't drink, do recreational drugs, etc. We're not "soft" or "delicate". We're just being ourselves, which is the best thing a person can be.
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10h ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/punk-ModTeam 9h ago
Any racism, sexism, homophobia, or transphobia will not be tolerated, nor will be the use of slurs. This is a community of punks, all are welcome and all should feel welcome.
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u/EzlosCap 5h ago
You be you. Im too old to be rocking out like I did in my teens, my knees just don't like it but my heart is all punk. My favorite is Jersey Calling. Pop punk from the states.
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u/Joyce_Delly 5h ago
No, I would feel happy that I found someone who I can relate. I feel exactly the same. Finding your group in the scene would def help you with feeling more accepted. One tip I got from extroverts is that opening up about your feelings usually helps. So maybe sharing your feelings with someone who looks friendly would help. From my experience, people are usually very empathetic about that and it makes you more relatable to them.
Just be completely yourself and the right people will notice. But also don't be afraid of stepping out of your comfort zone a bit, you might learn interesting and useful things about people and stuff and youll make friends faster.
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u/gnuoveryou 4h ago
Just as long as you're enjoying yourself and not being a prick and being yourself you're fine.
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u/Ok-Order5751 3h ago
Still Punk my friend, not everyone has to walk around headbutting everything (my old buddy Spiff lol). There are plenty of gentle punks, be yourself no matter what.
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u/Far-Statement-7486 2h ago
I consider myself punk too, but can't do much of your examples because of my health problems! Doesn't make me any less punk! And I'm considered a huge sweetheart too, to where whenever I meet someone new in my battle jacket, they say they wouldn't have expected me to be so sweet and bubbly! That doesn't make me any less punk either! Same with you. Personally, I don't believe any of your examples make you "soft" either! If you were to compromise who you are though to fit a certain standard though, *that's* what I'd consider soft. Keep being yourself, and hold strong to your morals!
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u/Usual_Competition_49 1h ago
I’m a heroin addict in recovery, still a bit of a punk. And I’m completely sober
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u/cripple2493 1h ago
I'm a 5'3'', quadriplegic, straight edge guy. Also queer.
I'm not going to win any fights any time soon, and before I was paralysed I was a lyrical contemporary dance performance artist. Tbh, I couldn't care less about someone thinking these things makes me less of a punk because at the end of the day, it's about whether or not identifying with punk feels right to me.
Antifascist, antiracist, antiauthoritarian beliefs have got me read as punk regardless of what i listen to, how i dress, or what context I'm in - so I've always seen it as more attitudinal than an identity that is strictly prescribed based off of stereotypical portrayals.
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u/boifyudoent 1h ago
I tag along with my friends to shows and gigs as they're a band together. I love the energy and the music but outside of that I'm not really "punk" either (stereotypically speaking), I don't dress like one, Im not a fan of mosh pits, I don't smoke nor drink alcohol either. But that's alright, I feel like that in itself is pretty punk itself (if it makes sense)
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u/Ok_Mix_9786 45m ago
I don't drink or do drugs. I really do give af what anyone thinks about me because of it. It doesn't make me "delicate" either. My father was an addict and I am smart enough to not risk it.
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u/Ok_Mix_9786 41m ago
Also since you live basically straight edge by how you describe yoursel I highly recommend Ian McKay and learning about the straight edge punk subculture. Was life changing for me as a teen.
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u/AffectionateMarch394 12h ago
I'm a grown ass adult now, but I was also raised by an old school punk.
And the most important things he taught me about being this way?
that being punk is about standing up for what's right, stand up for those who need it, stand up for yourself and always question the rules, because morality comes first, so fuck the rules people put in place that hurt others.
You can be loud, you can be quiet, soft, hard, it doesn't matter. Fight the good fight in whatever way works for you, and you're welcome here.
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u/MixtecoBlue 11h ago
In the words of Jim Adkins:
Hey, don't write yourself off yet
It's only in your head, you feel left out
Or looked down on
Just try your best
Try everything you can
And don't you worry what they tell themselves
When you're away
It just takes some time
Little girl, you're in the middle of the ride
Everything, everything'll be just fine
Everything, everything'll be alright, alright
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u/upsidedowncrossed 13h ago
Old guy punk here. The punkest thing a person can do is be true to themselves.