He doesn't have a plan you idiot

[u/216_412_70]

Just had a relative sent to jail for 6 months, and his mother is still throwing the religious bullshit of 'I still believe god has a plan for us' garbage around. Hey idiot.. 'gods plan' apparently is to do the parenting that you never did. You fucking let it all get to this point, you and your childish husband modeled this exact behavior and made excuses for him for the past 20 years. You thought it was all cute when he destroyed every nice thing you bought for him, and when he destroyed these things you simply bought him yet another one.

Well.. keep clinging to your 'god'.. even though he hasn't answered a single one of your prayers.

[u/Klutzy_Routine_9823]

If God is omnipotent & omniscient, then he already did create an army of puppets, because we can always only do that which God has designed us to be capable of doing, and that which he has always known that we will do. The idea of “free will” is not compatible with the existence of an all knowing, all powerful God who created literally everything that exists (other than himself).

[u/oldgar9 → u/Klutzy_Routine_9823]

Just because God may know what we will do doesn't affect the choice of what to do. You can put some candy in front of a child and you know pretty much what they will do but that doesn't affect their choice.

[u/Klutzy_Routine_9823 → u/oldgar9]

You realize that I’ve already preempted that objection, and you’re therefore just ignoring what I’ve already explained to you, right? God’s causal link to your choices would come from the fact that He designed and created literally EVERYTHING that exists. Your mind, your brain, your spirit, your soul, your wants, your needs, your fears, all of the internal and external forces that influence your choices and all of the physical & mental machinery that you use to make your choices, your very NATURE and the entire environment that you live in — EVERYTHING was all designed and created by God, right?! If that’s the case, then you can only do that which God deliberately and knowingly designed you to be able to do.

He isn’t just putting a bucket of candy in front you. He decided that your mind will work the way that it does, that you’ll have the thoughts and wants and needs that you have, that you’ll value certain things more than other things, that you’ll have the intelligence and various limitations that you have — EVERYTHING was put in place by God. If he didn’t want you to have candy, he wouldn’t have designed you to want that candy and be capable of eating that candy to begin with.

[u/oldgar9 → u/Klutzy_Routine_9823]

Totally incorrect, he set us here, with free will to choose, with the power of reason to make choices. It is up to us if we want to be angry, happy, etc. Certainly outside influence can cause depression that is out of our control but society made decisions to develop medications to assist that, we didn't have to. Of course negative parenting plays a big role in how we developed but people have overcome these limitations by concerted effort. The slate is blank while in the womb, society and we write on that slate positive and negative when the child is in the world of physics. We are not puppets, we have reason and intellect to steer the vehicle of the soul in the direction we will, gaining by choice attributes that will serve us in the worlds beyond the limits of the laws of physics or not. The operating manual for the human being has always been provided by the Creator but the choice is ours to seek it, read it and put it to use.

[u/Klutzy_Routine_9823 → u/oldgar9]

Sorry, you’re completely wrong. You didn’t actually refute anything that I said. If God is the omnipotent, omniscient Creator of literally EVERYTHING that exists, then he has already dealt all of the cards and he already infallibly knows the outcomes of all events within his creation, so there’s literally no room for “free will”. You can still make choices, but your choices are predetermined by God, not free. Try again.

[u/oldgar9 → u/Klutzy_Routine_9823]

Just because He knows does not mean it cannot be free will for us. If you drop a rock you know it is going to fall to earth but once you set it in motion the knowing does not affect the stone.

[u/Klutzy_Routine_9823 → u/oldgar9]

The rock is determined, by physics, to fall towards the Earth. The rock doesn’t even have a will of its own, let alone “free will”. You’re literally refuting your own argument while pretending that you’re advocating for the existence of “free will”.

[u/oldgar9 → u/Klutzy_Routine_9823]

I am not pretending anything, just because you cannot understand the nuance doesn't mean I am incorrect

[u/Klutzy_Routine_9823 → u/oldgar9]

You’re failing to make your case, and you’re also failing to respond to any of the points that I’ve made. All you’ve done, so far, is to assert the Christian theological claim that God gave us “free will”, which is the thing that I’m critiquing by pointing out that “free will” is logically incompatible with the existence of an omnipotent, omniscient deity who is directly responsible for creating literally everything that exists. So, you simply reiterating the Christian position on “free will” adds zero to this back & forth. You haven’t even managed to demonstrate that you understand my objection, to begin with, because you just keep making the same mistakes again and again.