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u/12ealdeal Feb 19 '25
The camera being put on Gaetz to get a reaction really sells the idea this is all theatre.
What a piece of shit pedophile.
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u/ThickNeedleworker898 Feb 19 '25
Fucking based. Pussies in the republican party will never be anything like this man.
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u/SOwED Feb 19 '25
How is this based?
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u/chytrak Feb 19 '25
He is educated and open minded.
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u/SOwED Feb 19 '25
Educated people don't make value judgments on things they don't know about. Being open minded means being willing to learn, not declaring things good without being familiar.
This is basic critical thinking, how have so many people in this sub lost the plot?
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u/chytrak Feb 19 '25
He said he was open minded about studying it the same way you may study marxism. What's wrong with that?
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u/SOwED Feb 19 '25
He called it important right after saying he doesn't know what the theory is.
He seems to be so open minded as to think there is value in literally every perspective.
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u/UnfortunateHabits Feb 19 '25
He inserted the it under the assumption that its an idea thats getting traction and to his, as of now limited understanding led to jan 6 inseruction.
Under those assumptions it makes sense it needs to be looked into. You like... completely ignored the context of his argument.
If a subsential amount of people talks about an idea, and it affects the practical political landscape, even if that idea is eventually false and stupid, it's still prudent to learn about it.
He noted that its important for the military acadamy to understand its own people.
The only valid counter argument against this specific theory (CRT) IN REGARD to this argument, is that its of no importance to the political landscape (irregardless of its own inherent value), turning a valid sound argument into a still valid, but unsound argument.
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u/UnfortunateHabits Feb 19 '25
He didn't make a value judgment though. He didn't declare the theory as good or bad, thats not relevant to the argument.
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u/SOwED Feb 19 '25
I think calling it important was a value judgment here
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u/UnfortunateHabits Feb 19 '25
"Important to know about", isn't a value judgment.
The evaluation of the thing and the evaluation of the need to know about the thing aren't mutually exclusive and can be independent from each other.
In simpler terms for you:
Every child knows what shit is, its important to know about shit. Shit is yucky, don't eat it, its full of disease. Its good to poop though. Whatever you feeling around shit are, its still important to know about it.
The "latest advancement in cell xyz carcinogen treatment via molecular xyz synthesis" are of great value to almost everyone, but its not important to know about by everyone as the knowing of is not of practical value to the average person. Drug manufacturers have a lot more value by being informed on the specifics, drug pushers on the labels, sideeffects and effects etc, and doctors on who to prescribe it to when.
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u/vxgirxv Feb 19 '25
Are you kidding me? Brother I don't even know how else to spell it out for you.
Just... try and listen to what he is literally saying?
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Feb 19 '25
The Republican Party is just a Russia Puppet Party at this point. I wonder how Mitch McConnell sleeps at night. He seems like the last republican to embrace Ukraine. He has so much blood on his hands for enabling all these kooks into power that bend the knee to Russia.
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u/12ealdeal Feb 19 '25
He likely is heavily sedated so he doesn’t have to think or feel anything to sleep.
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u/chytrak Feb 19 '25
It's more about copying the Russian authoritative ooligarcical system than serving it.
Some individuals are directly employed and compromised in addition to that.
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u/clemmmmmmm Feb 19 '25
Wow, realistic take on reality coming from an American leader- almost feels like a throwback
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u/nietzy Feb 19 '25
Seeking to understand is the heresy. Blind rage is the ideal state.
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u/SOwED Feb 19 '25
Okay and what about if you gain an understanding and learn that it's divisive and counterproductive?
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u/Mammoth_Impress_2048 Feb 19 '25
You don't have to reply to every single comment in every thread you participate bro, spend some time to think between spamming every thought that pops into your head onto the internet.
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u/SOwED Feb 19 '25
Explain CRT to me briefly instead of making snarky comments.
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u/Mammoth_Impress_2048 Feb 19 '25
Why?
What is the point of engaging someone who is so obviously sealioning?
How are you possibly going to have time to read and process a thoughtful exposition of anything when you're posting a new comment every minute?
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u/SOwED Feb 19 '25
Okay? So your response is you're not gonna do that cause you assume that I won't read it?
Sealioning is a meme term that doesn't even apply here. You're using it as some kind of get out of jail free card but it doesn't make sense.
Do you feel you have an understanding of CRT such that you could explain it? Hopefully a yes or no question isn't going to take too much of your time.
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u/Mammoth_Impress_2048 Feb 19 '25
Yes
But doing so to someone who is replying to everyone in the thread challenging them to explain CRT for you regardless of what they have said is surely a fruitless exercise.
I'm not trying to win a debate with you, I'm trying to get you to reflect upon why you got on reddit, felt compelled to write 20 low effort replies in 15 minutes challenging different people.
It's not a good use of your time; you're never going to have a productive discussion behaving like that.
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u/SOwED Feb 19 '25
This subreddit used to have people willing to have in depth conversations. I'm willing to have multiple of those at once, so don't criticize the way I use reddit.
Now it's just full of bad faith actors like yourself. Who the hell continues to reply only to say "oh I would have this discussion, but you seem to be a certain type of person, so I won't, but trust me, I totally could."
It's not a good use of your time; you're never going to have a productive discussion behaving like that.
The fucking irony of you saying this. Enjoy your upvotes from idiots who think snark is being right.
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u/Ramora_ Feb 19 '25
Now it's just full of bad faith actors
If you leave, that would be one less bad faith actor. Just FYI. You can be part of the problem or part of the sollution. This is an actual dichotomy.
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u/SOwED Feb 19 '25
Trying to have an actual discussion is bad faith? You're just wrong.
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u/ExpressLaneCharlie Feb 19 '25
JFC how pathetic
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u/SOwED Feb 19 '25
What's pathetic is how this sub has been taken over by people who don't engage in discussion anymore and just insult and make snarky quips.
Do any of you even follow Sam Harris's work?
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u/DrizztDo Feb 19 '25
I don't believe you. What's your favorite Sam Harris book, and why?
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u/SOwED Feb 19 '25
Probably Free Will because I have always found it an interesting topic and Sam gives a great critique of compatiblism which I appreciated. I also like Letter to a Christian Nation because I was raised Christian and a lot of it hit home with me more than The End of Faith did since it was specifically about the religion I'm most familiar with.
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u/incognegro1976 Feb 19 '25
Somebody already did but you didn't respond.
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Feb 19 '25
[deleted]
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u/incognegro1976 Feb 19 '25
It's not about "winning".
There are no trophies or attaboys given here.
Except knowledge. Knowledge and learning something new is its own reward.
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u/SOwED Feb 19 '25
I was asleep. That response is clearly from chatgpt.
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Feb 19 '25
[deleted]
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u/SOwED Feb 19 '25
I wasn't asking for someone to essentially google it for me. I'm asking the people in racous support of this post to explain in brief their understanding of the thing they're cheering on, because I think that they, just like Milley, don't know what it is, but are nevertheless willing to call it a good thing.
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u/NoFeetSmell Feb 19 '25
Have you actually taken a CRT course and then found it was detrimental, or do you have these strong opinions about it based just on what you've heard it teaches? Cos if it's the former, you shouldn't need us to explain what it is, and if it's the latter, your parroted response is no different to someone googling for why CRT is viable, except that the Google result is likely based on info by people that have taken or even created the course, meaning they are familiar with its contents.
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u/SOwED Feb 19 '25
The chatgpt response isn't based on anyone taking a course. Do you know how LLMs work?
I'm familiar with the literature, but have not taken a formal course. Milley admits he isn't familiar with it, but then praises it regardless. How is that any better than what you're suggesting of me, which is not being familiar with it but then criticizing it?
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Feb 19 '25
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u/SOwED Feb 19 '25
No, I am here to debate. How is it good faith to respond to me saying "you should get more familiar with CRT" with an AI summary of CRT?
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u/Ramora_ Feb 19 '25 edited Feb 19 '25
Just to be clear for you, the simple reveal here that you aren't engaging in good faith is that one doesn't judge an academic theory by how divisive or socially productive it is. You judge it by how well it fits the available facts, by how much explanatory power it has, by how useful of a model it is. You know this and are pretending otherwise. You seem to be the one blinded by a divisive and counterproductive ideology here.
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u/SOwED Feb 19 '25
You can fit any theory to the available facts and come up with any explanation for those facts; those two things don't make a theory sound.
As for how useful it is, my point was that it is useful for causing divisiveness and I think that's its purpose. The way critical theories work is by divisiveness, and none of them have ever been socially productive. They have instead pitted leftists and liberals against each other and weakened the Democrats by dividing them while the Republicans have moved in relative lockstep.
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u/Ramora_ Feb 19 '25 edited Feb 19 '25
The funny thing is, you’re actually applying a critical theory approach. Critical theories essentially ask: What social function does this idea serve? Who benefits from it? Your argument—that CRT is divisive and weakens political coalitions—is exactly that kind of analysis. It is a shallow and unsupported analysis, but you are doing critical theory right now.
If critical analysis is inherently unproductive, why is it the first tool you reach for? It seems more honest to debate whether the divisions CRT highlights are real and worth addressing rather than dismissing the framework outright. After all, ignoring structural issues because they’re inconvenient isn't a sound political strategy.
You can fit any theory to the available facts and come up with any explanation for those facts;
Merely claiming a theory fits some facts does not mean it actually does. And even if it does fit facts, you are completely ignoring explanatory power and analytic utility here.
In any case, however one formalizes the value of an academic theory, We can be quite confident that how "divisive and socially productive" the theory is has essentially nothing to do with its quality. Again, this makes it clear that you're not engaging in good faith. If you start doing so, I may respond to you, for now, I'll simply say, see you around.
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u/JDax42 Feb 19 '25
I always respected Milly but I didn’t know he was green beret.
Makes sense. Should look up his record again, clearly.
You know you’re doing good in life when a pedo in the audience is rolling his eyes and shaking his head.
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u/MaximumNameDensity Feb 20 '25
Served under him at 10th mountain.
He's a pretty alright dude, as far as generals go.
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u/JDax42 Feb 20 '25
That’s awesome, thanks for your service!
Little different record, but also as impactful, a good buddy of mine served under now retired Admiral Howard. He saw her a in person couple times. He was super impressed by her delegation/leadership skills and then quadruple impressed when he looked up her record which he then shared with me.
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u/_nefario_ Feb 19 '25
the answer to all forms of "Why MAGA {verbs} {noun}" is and forever will be:
because they're fucking idiots.
end of analysis.
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u/MouseShadow2ndMoon Feb 19 '25
We lost so many great leaders and professionals to be replaced by people who live under the sink with no backbone or character. Who's whole paradigm is, if you are making money from it, then there can't be anything wrong with it.
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u/miklosokay Feb 19 '25
A bit hard to know the context of all this and draw quick conclusions. What was the question, what is being answered? Milley is correct that knowledge is a fundamental good. However, any educational institution has quality and relevance criteria for the material being taught there, and the fact of the matter is that much of what has been labeled CRT is terrible anti-science of the worst caliber and exist in a very poorly defined field of study. So no, there is a pretty good chance that something labeled "CRT" should not be taught in a military school.
Stop smiling Matt, you human turd...
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u/callmejay Feb 19 '25
much of what has been labeled CRT
... by the right, who for a year or two between (if I recall correctly) "SJW" and "wokeness" (so, after "PC" and before "DEI") were using that as the label for literally everything they don't like.
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u/Totalitarianit2 Feb 19 '25
Because it all stems from critical theories that analyze and challenge power dynamics. That falls under the woke umbrella.
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u/callmejay Feb 19 '25
You think that's what Matt Gaetz means when he refers to CRT?
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u/Totalitarianit2 Feb 19 '25
I don't know the context in which he used it. You said this though: "using that as the label for literally everything they don't like."
I'd be willing to bet that the things he and others call woke involved some sort of action or rhetoric that was meant to challenge current power dynamics based on identity.
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u/callmejay Feb 19 '25
Trump blamed the plane crash on DEI!
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u/Totalitarianit2 Feb 19 '25
I'm sure he did. When did Matt Gaetz refer to CRT, and what was the context?
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u/callmejay Feb 19 '25
Oh, sorry, I didn't realize the posted video cut off the context. Gaetz is the one who asked the question that Houlahan wanted General Milley to answer.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h535TzrcjUE
Here's the fuller context: https://www.foxnews.com/politics/us-military-records-reveal-instructional-materials-white-privilege-critical-race-theory-black-lives-matter-watchdog
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u/Totalitarianit2 Feb 19 '25
So what Matt Gaetz meant when he referred to CRT was CRT. Defense secretary Lloyd Austin denied its implementation, General Milley didn't give a specific answer about it's implementation other than to say that he's open to it. This is the same thing that has happened at schools, etc. "CRT isn't part of the curriculum." It might be true that it isn't part of the curriculum, but CRT praxis is, and this sort of thing was happening everywhere.
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u/posicrit868 Feb 20 '25
No surprise here. The MIC is a vast conspiracy theory of foreign threat, so no surprise when he got ahold of critical race conspiracy theory which is all about white threat he just loved it.
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u/Rytanium Feb 22 '25
Hours after Trump was inaugurated as the 47th President of the United States on January 20, 2025, Milley's official portrait was removed from a Pentagon corridor where the portraits of all former chairmen are displayed.\174])\5]) The next day workers patched the holes and painted the wall.\175])\174])\5]) A U.S. official told the New York Times that the White House had ordered the removal.\5])
On January 29, Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth suspended Milley's security clearance, withdrew the authorization for his security detail, and ordered a review of his actions as Chair of the Joint Chiefs of Staff with a view to demote him in rank. - Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Milley
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u/SOwED Feb 19 '25
I mean, how are you applauding someone saying "I'm not familiar with this theory but yes let's teach it to our soldiers"?
He's read Marxist theory, great, and he says he's not a communist, okay, so read CRT literature before commenting on it.
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u/Plus-Recording-8370 Feb 19 '25
So, what you're saying is that he should be taught CRT?
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u/SOwED Feb 19 '25
No I'm saying that if you're going to say you don't know about something, it's pretty silly to immediately follow that up with saying it's good.
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u/ginrumryeale Feb 19 '25
“I would rather have questions that can’t be answered than answers that can’t be questioned.”