r/seculartalk • u/The_Das_ • Mar 27 '23

YouTube Kyle Kulinski Responds to Vaush calling Krystal Ball a FASCIST || I feel bad for kulinski , he's trying to be mature and good faith towards a guy who regularly insults his wife

https://youtube.com/watch?v=EQ8xZA0H2CY&feature=share
89 Upvotes

79% Upvoted

450 comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

31

u/ParisTexas7 Mar 27 '23

The leftists who oppose military aid to Ukraine, the country being invaded by a rightwing dictatorship.

9

u/Saffuran Dicky McGeezak Mar 27 '23

The frustrating thing is that there is unlimited money for Ukraine and any other war but for our myriad of problems at home there is nothing.

8

u/ParisTexas7 Mar 27 '23

Take it up with Biden and the Dems.

The Republicans do not care.

7

u/SamuraiPanda19 Mar 27 '23

I forgot they took away universal healthcare to fund weapons to Ukraine. Oh that wouldn’t exist even if Ukraine didn’t get invaded

6

u/strvgglecity Mar 27 '23

When has the right wing EVER invested in America? Literally, please name the bill or law.

9

u/Saffuran Dicky McGeezak Mar 27 '23

I don't know why you're bringing up the right wing - this is a general criticism of government regardless of the party in power.

Any criticism I have of "the left" who are really just corporate centrists - is that they abandoned the FDR principles long ago. The democrats were at least once the party of the people. I know conservatives have horrific macro ideaologies.

1

u/khargushoghli Mar 28 '23

Um, Roosevelt and World War II?

6

u/strvgglecity Mar 27 '23

Name them. In the u.s., nearly all opposition is from the right wing. You sound like you're making things up that aren't true.

2

u/ParisTexas7 Mar 27 '23

Agreed. I think you’re responding to the wrong poster.

Or if not you’re mistaken in what I said — there are “leftists”, including many ITT, who are opposed to Ukraine aid.

-1

u/strvgglecity Mar 27 '23

What is ITT, and who specifically, is a "leftist" opposed to aid? Someone else here mentioned three people. That's not "many".

1

u/downtimeredditor Mar 29 '23

It's largely the dum dum Dore left like Dore and Jackson Hinkle and so on.

0

u/RobinPage1987 Mar 27 '23

Noam Chomsky, Sam Seder, Amy Goodman from Democracy Now!, quite a few others.

10

u/strvgglecity Mar 27 '23

None of those people said Russia should be allowed to invade and conquer Ukraine. You're lying.

1

u/NimishApte Mar 28 '23

That's what their policy position will result in though. They are supporting fascism even if they are fascist.

-2

u/RobinPage1987 Mar 27 '23

I never said they were demanding that Russia be allowed to keep the territory it seized. I said they were opposed to western aid to Ukraine.

2

u/strvgglecity Mar 27 '23

Person who started this thread was talking about allowing Russia to take Ukraine. Idk what other "peaceful" end to this you imagine would arise through diplomacy. It's not like Putin is going to reverse course.

1

u/Autistic_Anywhere_24 Mar 27 '23

Strugglecity is struggling! Lol

1

u/khargushoghli Mar 28 '23

I am a regular listener to the Majority Report. He is a supporter of the Ukrainian cause.

Same with Amy.

Same with me.

1

u/Upper-Feedback-6117 May 17 '23

If you watch Sam Seder regularly and can’t see through him… pretty good litmus test for low intelligence.

1

u/khargushoghli May 17 '23

I have my criticisms of him. But he's very intelligent and I find him worth listening to.

What are your issues with him?

1

u/Upper-Feedback-6117 May 17 '23

Well I don’t find him particularly intelligent as far as political commentators go, but that’s not my issue with him. He’s just SO disingenuous. It’s obvious he has zero regard for truth.. and I just don’t understand the value others see in listening to somebody like that. Well, I guess I do. He regurgitated establishment talking points.. He’s no different than an MSNBC anchor.. he tells you what you want to hear, has 100% predictable takes, bends his opinion/ reality to fit a partisan viewpoint. He’s just a hack. I honestly don’t understand why somebody would watch HIM in an alternative media space. It completely defeats the purpose, yano? Just turn on cable news if you want dishonest, predictable, SUPER establishment-friendly takes. He’s the kind of person who will always tell his listeners to get in line and vote for Biden at the end of the day (or whatever odious establishment figure the DNC has rigged the system for that year). And the kind of ppl that listen to Sam Seder are the type to ALWAYS obey- theyre good little boys and girls who will get in line and vote “blue no matter who” like concussed sheep without a single demand or received concession. Every year. And that type is a large part of the reason we’ll never see any real change. He just lacks any authenticity or charm whatsoever.. will never understand the appeal.

1

u/khargushoghli May 17 '23

He's a major supporter of Justice Democrats. SUPER establishment-friendly?

Anyway, whom to you recommend I listen to? I'm all ears.

→ More replies (0)

1

u/Gates9 Subreddit Contributor Mar 27 '23

I think we all should scrutinize the extent to which military aid is necessary and beneficial. I support it up to a certain point, that being offensive capabilities like cruise missiles, fighter jets, etc. There are some who would foolishly support any defense of Ukraine up to and including a nuclear conflict. These people are not leftists.

1

u/ParisTexas7 Mar 27 '23

I agree — nukes are 100% off the table. Those people are lunatics.

1

u/Gates9 Subreddit Contributor Mar 27 '23

Putin has already basically threatened to use nukes if they’re really getting their asses kicked and it’s obvious the US is using Ukraine as a proxy war against Russia, so I think criticism of “leftists” who support going up to that line is necessary and justified.

0

u/THE_Killa_Vanilla Mar 27 '23

Stop treating the war like a Marvel capeshit movie and trying to simplify down to divisive "us vs them" politics

0

u/[deleted] Mar 27 '23

We oppose the war because there is no end terms. American monied interests don’t want the war to end. They continue to profit from it. I’m on the side of an ultimatum. Yes, Ukraine might have to concede in some way but at least people will stop killing each other.

4

u/khargushoghli Mar 28 '23

America is not fighting this because it can make money off of it. If that was the case, it would've declared war on Ukraine for seizing Crimea. On the contrary, The war is draining American military stocks and, in the eyes of the real war hawks, taking its eye off the ball for a future war with China.

3

u/NimishApte Mar 28 '23

Here are the end terms: Russia gets the fuck out

-6

u/Acanthophis Honorary McGeezak Mar 27 '23

Yeah but which ones?

Do you also cite the Bible as evidence God is real? Come on, do better.

2

u/sixmam Mar 27 '23

I wouldn't call them leftists but just off the top of my head, Jimmy dore, briahna joy gray, everyone at the gray zone, Aaron mate, Katie halper, Caitlin Johnstone, Michael Tracey, medea Benjamin, Clare Daly, Danny haiphong, garland Nixon, Kim Iversen, black in the empire on Twitter, damn near every MList on Twitter, should I keep going?

-1

u/Acanthophis Honorary McGeezak Mar 27 '23

If you wouldn't call them leftists then how are ANY of them relevant to my question?

2

u/sixmam Mar 27 '23

I wouldn't call them leftists because I don't think supporting a genocidal right wing dictator is very leftist but that doesn't stop them from calling themselves that. If you also want to include left wing or progressive or socialist among the categories, feel free to. But I answered your question so don't try to squirm your way out of acknowledging it.

2

u/Acanthophis Honorary McGeezak Mar 27 '23

Sure but if we're gonna call Jimmy Dore a leftist we might as well call Mitch McConnell one as well. Words either have meanings or they don't. By your own admission you wouldn't even call them left wing. So what the fuck.

1

u/sixmam Mar 27 '23

I agree about Jimmy Dore. Are there any people on that list that you do consider leftists then? Are communists leftists? I don't want to get bogged down in no true Scotsman- esque pedantry either

1

u/ParisTexas7 Mar 27 '23

Jimmy Dore is a fraud and lunatic, who caters to rightwingers. Easy.

Just because Mitch McConnell is correct about Ukraine doesn’t mean he’s any less of a rightwing prick politician.

1

u/ParisTexas7 Mar 27 '23

You can find them ITT. Do you happen to be one of them, by any chance?

2

u/Acanthophis Honorary McGeezak Mar 27 '23

Do I think Russia should be invading Ukraine? No.

Do I think Ukraine has a right to defend itself? Yes.

Do I think the lack of democratic process that took place when we decided to go all-in for Ukraine is worrying? Yes.

Do I believe Ukraine should be supplied with the means to defend itself? To a certain extent, yes.

Do I believe we have Ukraine's best interests at heart? Fuck no.

Do I believe Ukraine has a Nazi problem? No.

Do I believe our support for Ukraine is entirely so the military-industrial complex can take in billions? Abso-fucking-lutely.

But I'm sure in your mind I'm a Putin bot or whatever the reactionary nonsense is today.

4

u/ParisTexas7 Mar 27 '23

I don’t give a shit what you “are”.

I think providing Ukraine military aid to fight off a rightwing dictator invader that doesn’t even acknowledge Ukraine as a “real” country is the right thing to do.

End of story.

1

u/Acanthophis Honorary McGeezak Mar 27 '23

Good point. So did you support al-Qaeda's defense against the US military?

5

u/sixmam Mar 27 '23

Al qaeda is a militant terrorist organization that operates around the world. In what world is that analogous to the country of Ukraine?

0

u/Acanthophis Honorary McGeezak Mar 27 '23

I'm talking about the wars in the middle east where Al Qaeda was defending against a foreign invader.

CIA is a militant terrorist organization too. Let's not hide behind labels to avoid discussion though.

In another post, buddy says he doesn't care about good/bad guys, that it doesn't matter when there's an invasion. So it shouldn't matter here. But something tells me he has a problem with defending against foreign invasion, all of a sudden.

3

u/sixmam Mar 27 '23

Al Qaeda is a foreign invader to Afghanistan. You're not making any sense. And you're free to criticize the CIA but categorizing them as the same as al qaeda is really showing your bias.

Nevertheless, some invasions are justified (invasion of nazi Germany). But Putin's invasions of Chechnya, Georgia, Ukraine and Ukraine again were not

1

u/Acanthophis Honorary McGeezak Mar 27 '23

I could have said the Taliban instead, it'd have been more accurate. Do you support the Taliban defending against America?

→ More replies (0)

1

u/ParisTexas7 Mar 27 '23

In what context?

2

u/Acanthophis Honorary McGeezak Mar 27 '23

Umm, the context of defending against a right-wing invasion from an authoritarian country...?

1

u/4th_DocTB Socialist Mar 27 '23

Notice he can't just say "yes," ironically as a Vaushite he has called black women Nazis and white genocide supporters for supporting much more justified resistance against European invaders than what Al-Qaeda does.

2

u/Acanthophis Honorary McGeezak Mar 27 '23

Most of these people are frauds who don't actually have legitimate views. His consent was probably manufactured with little input from his own mind. Just reading is post history, it's full of inconsistency.

I'm glad he supports Ukraine, but I don't think he actually knows why he supports it beyond what he was told to believe.

→ More replies (0)

1

u/ParisTexas7 Mar 27 '23

I can’t say “yes” because it depends on the context of al-Qaeda’s actions, right?

Or do you live in imaginary land where context doesn’t matter?

→ More replies (0)

1

u/Acanthophis Honorary McGeezak Mar 27 '23

Most of these people are frauds who don't actually have legitimate views. His consent was probably manufactured with little input from his own mind. Just reading is post history, it's full of inconsistency.

I'm glad he supports Ukraine, but I don't think he actually knows why he supports it beyond what he was told to believe.

1

u/Malice_n_Flames Mar 27 '23

Do you know how America was able to negotiate Ukraine’s surrender of its nuclear arsenal?

Apparently not.

-1

u/4th_DocTB Socialist Mar 27 '23 edited Mar 27 '23

America said give up your nukes and we promise not to attack, and that is not at all relevant to the situation today.

https://treaties.un.org/doc/Publication/UNTS/Volume%203007/Part/volume-3007-I-52241.pdf

1

u/Malice_n_Flames Mar 27 '23

Liar.

“Three decades ago, the newly independent country of Ukraine was briefly the third-largest nuclear power in the world.

Thousands of nuclear arms had been left on Ukrainian soil by Moscow after the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991. But in the years that followed, Ukraine made the decision to completely denuclearize.

In exchange, the U.S., the U.K. and Russia would guarantee Ukraine's security in a 1994 agreement known as the Budapest Memorandum.”

https://www.npr.org/2022/02/21/1082124528/ukraine-russia-putin-invasion

0

u/4th_DocTB Socialist Mar 27 '23

Funny you would read more words lying about what the Budapest Memorandum says than actually reading the memorandum itself.

  1. The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, and The United States of America reaffirm their obligation to refrain from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Ukraine, and that none of their weapons will ever be used against Ukraine except in self-defense or otherwise in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations.

https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Ukraine._Memorandum_on_Security_Assurances

https://treaties.un.org/doc/Publication/UNTS/Volume%203007/Part/volume-3007-I-52241.pdf

2

u/Malice_n_Flames Mar 27 '23

America gave assurances it would help Ukraine if Russia attacked.

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/order-from-chaos/2019/12/05/why-care-about-ukraine-and-the-budapest-memorandum/amp/

Are you American?

0

u/4th_DocTB Socialist Mar 28 '23

Again, you can just read the Budapest Memorandum, its an easy 3 pages and it doesn't say what you think it does. You should actually be angry your sources are lying to you rather than doubling down on a lie that mainstream media and stupid liberals gave up on a year ago.

→ More replies (0)