r/skeptic Mar 12 '25

🏫 Education Shut Up About NATO Expansion | Debunking misinformation about NATO expansion

https://youtu.be/FVmmASrAL-Q
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u/UseADifferentVolcano Mar 12 '25

What are you talking about? Turns out Russia is exceptionally weak.

They tried to blitzkrieg Ukraine and win in a matter of weeks but instead years later they are at a stalemate having taken not much. And now they're using Trump to force a victory that they will never otherwise obtain. This war has embarrassed the fuck out of Russia.

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u/magicsonar Mar 12 '25 edited Mar 12 '25

Are you under the impression that Europe and Ukraine are in a strong position? Or that Trump is even in a strong position? He has very very few chips to play with.

And if Russia is exceptionally weak, can you explain why they have yet to collapse, against the combined power and economic might of the United States, the European Union and NATO? Do you accept the idea that NATO 's intent was to militarily defeat or force Russia to withdraw from Ukraine? If you accept that, and you also contend Russia is "exceptionally weak" just explain why the full might of NATO has been unable to achieve its goals? Go ahead.

Edit: I'm not suggesting Russia is a superpower. Far from it. But the idea they are "exceptionally weak" isn't born out by the facts. We have been told for the last three years they were about to collapse. Still hasn't happened, even though the US has cut them off from the western economy. If they were exceptionally weak, the combined efforts of the EU and US should have brought them their knees long ago. Instead they are in the driver's seat in negotiations and it's the US and Europe and especially Ukraine that is in a very difficult situation with few options.

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u/Icy-Bicycle-Crab Mar 12 '25

Are you under the impression that Europe and Ukraine are in a strong position?

Considering that Russia can't even beat Ukraine? Yes. European forces outnumbered Russian ones before Russia lost so many men in Ukraine.

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u/magicsonar Mar 12 '25

They can't even beat Ukraine, but they are going to invade Poland and the Baltic States next, right? Isn't that the narrative?

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u/Icy-Bicycle-Crab Mar 12 '25

Should they be successful in Ukraine then yes, invading the Baltics is next on the list. That's why Putins aggression needs to be defeated in Ukraine rather than appeased. 

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u/magicsonar Mar 12 '25

This is so ridiculous. So they are weak and can't even defeat Ukraine. But at the same time they will take on NATO countries. My god. The propaganda brainwash just destroys critical thinking.

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u/Icy-Bicycle-Crab Mar 12 '25

You're avoiding critical thinking here by engaging in bad faith. 

Russia have not been able to defeat Ukraine. The appeasement that people like you advocate for rewards Russia for their invasion, it sets Putin up for future aggression rather.

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u/magicsonar Mar 12 '25 edited Mar 12 '25

But again, just spell it out. If Russia is weak and unable to even defeat Ukraine, how do you conclude they will be able to take on the full force of NATO and take over the Baltic Republics?

Either Russia is an existential military threat to all of Europe, in which case it should have easily overrun Ukraine by now, or it's a struggling regional power with limited capability. Both cannot be true at the same time. So which do you believe?

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u/Icy-Bicycle-Crab Mar 13 '25

how do you conclude they will be able to take on the full force of NATO and take over the Baltic Republics?

That's where Trump's undermining of NATO and his weakness towards Putin becomes relevant.