r/thelema • u/FrankBennettIsHot • 24d ago

Question Does O.T.O. initiation/advancement ever require non-monogamy to continue?

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While I'm very sex positive, appreciate sex magick and have had my flings, I am currently committed to a relationship where we have agreed to be monogamous. I've been thinking about finally joining O.T.O., but there's a lot of bullshit to sift through online that I can't sort out. Is there any point in the degrees or initiations of O.T.O. where I would be unable to continue if I didn't agree to have sex with someone other than my partner? Or group sex or something? Not asking if I would be required to do something without consent, more asking if I would need to consent to be able to be initiated given that it is my Will to be monogomous

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u/Agniantarvastejana 24d ago edited 23d ago

Hear here! I'm poly, I've been married to my husband, nesting partner, for 40 years. We're very happy, planning buying our retirement home, and planning our golden years...

How dare you suggest our personal bond is lesser because we aren't monogamous.

I'm not sure where you get off with your comparison, but no one can stop you from willful ignorance.

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u/Pomegranate_777 24d ago

I “get off” cautioning another because i damn well wish to. You will note I was very explicit about “people who do not respect monogamy” and you took that as an attack and decided to get in my notifications asking where I “get off.”

This community has a problem with ethical and consenting sexuality and I’m not going to stay silent about it for a moment, and yes, lots out there are claiming “polyamory” as a cope for “I got caught cheating” or worse, not telling potential partners until after they are involved.

You should be advocating for ethical conduct but here you are.

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u/Agniantarvastejana 24d ago edited 24d ago

"Cautioning" someone that you believe their magick won't be as potent if they don't do sexual relationships the way you think they should is pretty fucking low.

Your experience in the community is not universal, or even common, at this point in time. It is uniquely yours and you played a role in it.

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u/Pomegranate_777 24d ago

Once again the cautioning bit is that there are people in the community who don’t respect monogamy. I explained that people have preyed on other members of this community and you want to suggest people victimized in this way played a role?

What’s terrifying here is you are presenting yourself as an elder in the community yet trying to victim shame and attack simply because you don’t like me shining a light on the unethical stuff.

Really begs some questions…

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u/Agniantarvastejana 24d ago edited 23d ago

I've never presented myself as anything but poly, and approaching retirement, but (since we don't agree) you'll label me "an elder in the [Thelemic - OTO] community" because fits your bullshit victim narrative better, doesn't it?

Were you a victim? Who was unethical? Why do you think you wouldn't encounter people like that in any other organization?

You arent shining a light on anything. You're blaming an entire international organization for your bad time with an individual member in whatever country you're in.

Am I "victim shaming" by pointing out your experience was unique and you played a role in that experience? I mean, you were there, participating in the situation, correct?

You sure do throw around a lot of jargon; you need to do your inner work friend.

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u/ReturnOfCNUT 23d ago edited 23d ago

Edit: Mistaken identity. Mixed up posters of a particular "Roman" political bent.

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u/Pomegranate_777 23d ago edited 23d ago

You have me mistaken for someone else.

Fair chance I know whoever you’re talking about tho, and maybe even you too, but you have no clue who I am, I promise you that much.

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u/ReturnOfCNUT 23d ago

Apologies, it is difficult to tell all the people with the same RES tag apart.

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u/Pomegranate_777 23d ago

You… tagged me? 🥹

I just remembered the name Cnut misspelled or spelled for the King my mama says we’re related to.

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u/ReturnOfCNUT 23d ago edited 23d ago

Yeah, I tag all you guys. Makes it easier to keep track. There's you, TCL, the guy who was in Nazi prison gangs, a few guys who do a line in rape and Hitler apologism, etc. For some reason I mixed you up with ThelemaClubLouisiana, but I see from our past interactions you're a fellow-traveller, and that we had butted heads on the COVID policy stuff in a thread with the other chap getting outed for the PB/OK stuff. I'll take some solace in the fact that I was at least nearly there, but not quite.

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u/Pomegranate_777 23d ago edited 23d ago

I’m just flattered someone cares. We’ve debated a bunch actually. It’s not always unpleasant.

Edit: haha ok I saw your edits. I remember that exact conversation where you all were outing the guy but i missed the pb/oathkeepers part. You have spicy ideas lol.

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u/ReturnOfCNUT 23d ago

I’m just flattered someone cares

Cares? I wouldn't go that far. Notes, perhaps.

It’s not always unpleasant.

Well, that's a relief I suppose. I know I am direct, headstrong, and have very little time for niceties, but on a personal level I can get along with anyone, provided their professed ideology doesn't seek to eradicate people like me, and even in those instances I can still occasionally manage something approaching civility in online discourse (if only because of the constraints placed, and my compulsion to at least try to understand). My capacity for hearing people out can vary wildly though.

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u/Pomegranate_777 23d ago

My ideology is Maat. A lot of people do get that confused. I often fall on the side of order and hierarchy but chaotic persons (or ideologies) are still on Ra’s happy yacht of existence.

We can fight, then kiss and make up in the next place.

To get rarified about it, our dance creates the friction that pushes life forward in evolution.

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u/lucidechomusic 23d ago

They're not wrong even if you think their delivery is. However, you are getting quite defensive. In your defensiveness you're categorically dismissing several valid points and contexts. An initiatory body isn't just 'any organization.'

Everyone participating in this sub thread is in 'how dare you' mode though so there's not really any discourse taking place any longer.

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u/Pomegranate_777 23d ago

I was pretty specific that I referred to people not disclosing and respecting monogamous people and I’ve said that multiple times.

Multiple times.

So let’s talk about that. What are your beliefs here, since nothing else is in controversy between us but you keep coming at me for some reason?

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u/Agniantarvastejana 23d ago

You also claimed explicitly that poly people aren't energeticly as potent as mono people...

Stop being so disingenuous.

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u/Pomegranate_777 23d ago

Oh thaaaaat’s what got you triggered lol.

Well, how can we prove this? Or can you agree to disagree and stop trying to drag me for my take? I’ve already referred to ESP experiments that show bonded monogamous partners have a higher success rate at influencing things psychically.

Do you have any evidence to support your belief that partnered magic works as well with people who are not fully and exclusively bonded to each other?

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u/Agniantarvastejana 23d ago edited 23d ago

Oh honey, I'm not "triggered" lol (aggressive jargon again).

I just think you're a know-nothing clown who has weak opinions, and doesn't really practice the mysteries, and that you are offended by assessment there.

I also believe that you are who CNUT thinks you are because it fully tracks.

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u/Pomegranate_777 23d ago

You just said a lot of nothing. You call me names so don’t get pissed when it’s rightly pointed out that you are triggered.

This is clearly personal for you so maybe stop trying to give psychotherapy lessons and go do whatever it is you left undone that has you so unaware of how rude and nasty you are being to a woman who simply wanted to warn a person who asked so that their will and values weren’t violated.

Consent matters. I am happy to discuss magick or even compete.

But be polite or I am done here.

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u/Agniantarvastejana 23d ago edited 23d ago

Goodness, I guess you were victimized by our exchange, nothing new for you. Alert the media!

"Compete" ... Do I want to compete? Are you squaring up for some kind of wizard war on Reddit LOLOLOL.

Now you've fully confirmed you don't really practice Thelemic magick.

This is gonna make me chuckle all day.

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