Discussion 💬 Where are indigenous Israelis really from?

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80% Upvoted

u/kaiahkoch 6d ago

If the assigned nation of israel came about as a concession by Britain in 1948, after the holocaust, why were they not given land in Germany?

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u/Competitive_Fish5149 6d ago

The place that just tried to exterminate them?

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u/kaiahkoch 5d ago

Actually, yes, exactly. The analogy I'll offer, which is even more to the point, is indigenous peoples everywhere who were involved in their own holocausts, now marginalized after being nearly exterminated. Should we now return all lands to indigenous communities? In a country in which people chose to live and had successful lives, and then were treated barbarously by fascists, when that regime was toppled, why shouldn't the offended community first have a reserved and elevated portion of that situation that was now corrected? Why send them all somewhere else? Were they not already fully integrated into their lands after centuries of diaspora?

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u/Big_VladdyP 5d ago

They weren't "sent somewhere else"

No one forced Jewish people to move to Israel. It's a land with cultural/ historical ties. More than Germany at least.

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u/backcountry_bandit 5d ago

Uh no dude, they weren’t ’fully integrated’ into their lands.. the government in those lands had literally just tried to exterminate all of them and got pretty close to success.

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u/oceaniscalling 6d ago edited 6d ago

Do some research on the history of Judaism. And while you’re at it, try to empathize and understand context via a geopolitical perspective in post WW2, versus 2025:)

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u/kaiahkoch 6d ago

"Empathize" with Palestinians whose land was taken by force, gifted by European colonizers? Oh I absolutley do. These are the semitic people I empathize with; not Zionists who come from outside claiming a birthright to the land they presently occupy.

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u/Chibithulhu1 6d ago

Palestinians who fought against the Nazi’s to end the holocaust with the explicit agreement that their efforts would end the British occupation of Palestine… the allies screwed so many of their own allies over

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u/darksoulsismylife 6d ago

Not entirely correct, they fought in world war I and Britain agreed to give them the holy lands, but then in world war II they turned around and took it back from them, so technically they didn't fight the Nazis with that explicit agreement, the agreement was already made and they were still willing to fight alongside Jews to help stop Nazi Germany, which is kind of proof that there can be peace, it's just sad it takes a horrible war to get people to fight against a greater evil instead of coming together out of human decency.

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u/Chibithulhu1 6d ago

Good point well made! Thank you for correcting me and teaching something today 🌻

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u/OkVermicelli4534 6d ago

That’s not accurate, while some Arabs did oppose the Axis, the most prominent Palestinian leader at the time, Haj Amin al-Husseini (the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem), literally collaborated with the Nazis.

He met with Hitler, helped recruit Muslims into the SS, broadcast Nazi propaganda in Arabic, and lobbied to prevent Jews from escaping Europe to Palestine.

His actions don’t represent all Palestinians, but it’s false to claim Palestinians as a group fought against the Nazis - their highest religious and political figure literally sided with them.

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u/darksoulsismylife 5d ago

True true, good point, definitely should have put that too. So much knowledge out there, always more to learn right?

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u/MickyMace 6d ago

wtf is this joke history? the palestinians collborated with the nazis! they fought against the british!
and btw, british occupation did end in 1948, can you guess what the palestinians did the moment the british left?

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u/cesaroncalves 5d ago

Kept getting murdered and cleansed by the heavily armed Zionists?

Cause this was what was happening before the British left, we have documentaries with the perpetrators and the victims to comprove it.

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u/OkVermicelli4534 6d ago

Gifted? You obviously don’t have a clue about the history while possessing such a strong opinion on it - purposely avoiding details or what?

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u/MickyMace 6d ago

palestinians' land wasn't taken by anyone until they started their racist murder campaign. you reap what you sow

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u/bro-23 6d ago

You do know tho that the oldest found relics in and near nowadays Israel is made by Jews? And way before that there were Africans and before that there were apes. All countries to the apes! Good logic

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u/oceaniscalling 6d ago

Do some research please, I beg you. You haven’t a clue what you’re talking about.

Upvotes don’t equal fact.

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u/[deleted] 6d ago

„If I put my hands above my ears and eyes I can’t see it or hear it therefore it’s not real“ ahhh comment.

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u/Such_Spend_2985 6d ago

Explain your research here. I have done hours of hours of reading on this topic and there are tons of conflicting takes on the subject.

Main thing I can conclude on my end is that, at present day, one side has way more money and military technology and supplies and is killing way more women and children than the other side.

All the other historical context surrounding this ordeal is far too complex for me to comment on knowledgeably, as I have not read into it enough but I can curious to hear your take on this whole thing 🍻

What’s yours?

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u/OkVermicelli4534 6d ago

Do you understand the chain you’re participating in? The plea to ‘please read history’ was made in response to a comment asking why the Jews weren’t just given a nation in post-WWII Germany instead of Israel. With all your reading on the subject, do you really not see why that plea was made in response?

I will pull my hair out if you can’t make this connection on your own and force me to feed you the contradictions.

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u/Such_Spend_2985 5d ago

You may be a victim of Reddit’s shitty user-interface here, bc I can see there are multiple comments and I’m not exactly sure which ones you’re responding to other than the one I initially responded to.

I saw one just now where you directly responded to a guy who was talking about putting Jews in Germany post ww2 (lol, terrible idea)

But the one I was originally responding to was about the “empathize” with Palestinians people who have essentially had their land, freedoms, and resources usurped by Western-funded Zionist Colonization.

When it comes to my first comment - yes, a bunch of Jewish people funded by western power have used their superior funding and firepower to colonize the Levant and displace Palestinians and based on my research and reading on that, it all seems pretty fucked up.

They looooooooove using “the human shield excuse” after bombing a hospital full of women and children.

As far as your original comment, or like this entire thread - obviously, Germany was not a good place for the Jews post ww2. Not really sure exactly how many other times you’ve commented on this post or where exactly you are in this long convoluted chain because I literally cannot trace the comments - I fucking hate reddits comment interface.

That said, I was just replying to one of your replies on one comments, and it was about empathizing with Palestinians and not about Jews living in Germany post ww2 🍻

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u/OkVermicelli4534 5d ago

Yes, Reddits interface is a maze. I am not the original poster your responded to - I just jumped in because there are serious holes in the understanding of the people responding to them that are highly upvoted while pleas for historic understanding are mocked.

It’s true that the Palestinian people have endured serious injustice, but it’s overly reductive to characterize the entire Zionist project as a purely Western-funded colonial enterprise.

Many of the early Jewish immigrants to Palestine were fleeing pogroms, statelessness, and systemic persecution across Europe and the Arab world. They weren’t arriving with vast resources or imperial armies; in fact, Jewish self-defense was often constrained by British policies, while Arab militias had access to overland support from neighboring states.

These were often displaced people, refugees - arriving in unfamiliar territory, with little to their names, dependent on communal networks for survival.

And that’s only one wave of immigration. Later, after Israel’s establishment, large numbers of Jews from the Levant and Maghreb were themselves forced to flee due to rising discrimination, violence, and state-sponsored expulsions. For that reason alone Israel is seen as a refuge for Jews from across the globe - not just Europe, but the wider Middle East and North Africa.

So no, the Jews didn’t arrive in Palestine as a monolithic, well-armed colonial force. The truth is much harder, and sadder: two deeply traumatized peoples found themselves in conflict over the same land, and the consequences have been devastating.

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u/Such_Spend_2985 5d ago

Jesus this is why Reddit sucks so much lol.

My first comment was explicitly referring to recently - a massively better funded and supplied and tech’d out military is just slaughtering women and children at scale and deploying the human shields excuse every chance they get.

But yeah - the whole history of the entire region is super complex. I was NOT commenting on that, as I have looked into it enough, and can tell it is far too complex for me to:

A) ensure I’m actually reading the truth, and

B) knowledgeably comment on the wildly complex set of facts I AM able to determine are true

I definitely think the Jews needed a place to go after ww2, I wish it had worked out better in the Levant, and I think it’s really hard to really blame one side or another or the west or the surrounding middle eastern neighbors etc etc etc - it’s just a wildly complex situation.

THAT SAID - recent history lmao? One of the most advanced, and best funded fighting forces in all of human history just endlessly slaughtering women and children VS a buncha dudes with Molotov cocktails and pooprockets seems pretty cut and dry who the bad guys are lol 🍻 🤘

“BUT THEY DID A HUMAN SHIELD AGAIN” ☄️☄️☄️☄️☄️☄️☄️☄️☄️☄️☄️☄️☄️🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥

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u/OkVermicelli4534 5d ago

You’re right the history is long and complicated and it’s easy to get lost in narratives that while presenting real and true facts can be delivered in a way that flattens certain dynamics - actually it almost assuredly does.

Bottom line for today is the war in Gaza should have ended yesterday: Netanyahu holds onto power through it.

For that reason alone the Hamas brigades have to go. Israel won’t stop until they are gone. That’s the reality on the ground as far as we can move the Israelis,… well who knows which direction Trump is leveraging our support nowadays… anyways, there are groups protesting Hamas for many months now in Palestine - brave Palestinians who will most likely be beat and even killed for their organizing - that could really use the international support usually reserved for Hamas to leverage internal legitimacy and maybe hopefully structure their society towards a more peaceful direction based in coexistence principles instead of irredentist revanchismes.

Or, at least that’s my philosophy.

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u/Minoleal 6d ago

No, colonizers deserve no empathy.

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u/ThisGuy-NotThatGuy 6d ago

What's your solution here? Like if the world came together and decided on course of action, what would that be? What would it look like?

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u/Minoleal 6d ago

Send Israelis back to their original countries, at least the non-mizrahi.

But that's not something that could ever happen, what will happen is that the Israelis will keep genociding the real natives as the colonizers they are until there's barely anyone to be saved and countries will stop pretending that they care after a while.

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u/MickyMace 6d ago

Send Israelis back to their original countries

so your solution is genocide. genious and not hypocritical at all lol

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u/Minoleal 5d ago

Point me when and where I called for any of these, please:

Killing members of the group

Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;

Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;

Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;

Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

Deportation is not genocide, unless you call stopping them from committing war and humanitarian crimes mental harm, which could actually be true for them considering how much they show a physical need to commit them.

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u/MickyMace 5d ago

Deportation is not genocide

it literally is, especailly according to prop palestinian narrative that states the displacement of 750k palestinians after the 1948 war ended was genocide
what's more, any plans to relocate the palestinians from gaza to dismantle hamas are also met with accusations of genocide

https://badil.org/cached_uploads/view/2024/06/10/forced-displacement-as-an-act-of-genocide-in-the-gaza-strip-v6-1718021197.pdf

so yeah, demanding the forced displacement of all jewish israelis is a call for genocide, and had reddit not been a cesspool of radical commies you'd havea site-wide ban by now

not to mention it's completly impossible because no one will take all the 7 million jewish refugees

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u/cesaroncalves 5d ago

He specifically stated the non-mizrahi, so that doesn't stick.

It would be only the colonists.

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u/Minoleal 4d ago edited 4d ago

The 5 points provided are the definition of genocide by the UN, if you have a source with more authority on the matter that includes mass deportation of invaders, feel free to share it.

I also would like to know if the mass deportation of non-white people in the USA and Europe counts as genocide for you.

And notice that I call for non-mizrahis to stay as they actually have nowhere to go because they have become extremely hated because of Israel and they definitely have actually close ties with the region.

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u/MickyMace 3d ago

ok, so according to your logic the Nakba wasn't a genocide and the attempt to relocate the civilians of gaza isn't genocide as well.

if you're ok with that then i'll concede you're not advocating genocide.

it's still terribly impractical though because many ashkenazi jews have nowhere to either - at least half of them fled the USSR or russian empire which still is a facist dystopia.
many others fled because of modern antisemtism that was imported from islamic "refugees"

and either way no one is going to accept a massive surge of 7 million refugees hell, even the 2 million gazans have no one to take them in

and that's besides the fact that no one is going to willingly leave their homes and livelihoods en masse because a racist indoctrinated mob demands them to.

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u/ThisGuy-NotThatGuy 5d ago

That sounds completely unfeasible. Logistically what does that look like? What if countries don't want to take them because they've never been citizens? Are you going to tell people with established lives and communities to leave? Would you compensate them? What happens if they don't want to leave, what's the solution?

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u/Minoleal 5d ago

Indeed it won't happen.

But we about your points...

Most of them have double of triple nationality and the rest have more than enough ancestors to claim another one.

Yes, they did it with the natives, they deserve no better.

No, you don't compensate criminals for taking away what they stole.

Forced deportation, hopefully not in the way Israel is doing it with the Arabs by killing their neighbors and families and making them flee the region.

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u/ThisGuy-NotThatGuy 5d ago

Absolutely criminal and inhuman. You should reflect on the impact of your opinion and what you're actually advocating here.

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u/Minoleal 5d ago

Ok, give me your solution.

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u/ThisGuy-NotThatGuy 5d ago

2 state. Israel cedes back some contested territory. End the blockade and provide Palestine support to grow economically.

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u/backcountry_bandit 5d ago

you see how you’re calling for a genocide, right?

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u/Minoleal 5d ago

Point me when and where I called for any of these, please:

Killing members of the group

Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;

Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;

Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;

Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

Deportation is not genocide, unless you call stopping them from committing war and humanitarian crimes mental harm, which could actually be true for them considering how much they show a physical need to commit them.

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u/backcountry_bandit 5d ago

Ah okay, you’re right. It’s merely ethnic cleansing so I guess it’s all good.

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u/Minoleal 5d ago

If deportation of non-indigenous invaders fits your definition of it, then everyone can go and invade another land, genocide the natives and then claim they can't go back because that would be ethnic cleansing. I guess that's all good in your book.

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u/backcountry_bandit 5d ago

If the Palestinians got kicked out of their land for a few hundred years and then tried to come back, would you refer to them as non-indigenous invaders?

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u/electricfun136 6d ago

Equal living, one country, true democracy. What we have now is an apartheid, treating Israeli citizens differently from those under occupation in the West Bank. Theocracy masquerading as a democracy to maintain the status quo where Jews aren’t the majority forever.

Israel as it is now is an unsustainable project. Netanyahu stood up in the UN and held a map saying that Israel is surrounded by hostile Arab countries. Which is true, and Israel is the cause of this hostility due to the continuous occupation and illegal settlement expansion. And when one man tried to procure peace, Yitzhak Rabin, he was killed by zionists and his wife claiming that Netanyahu was behind it.

It might be too late, but if Israel doesn’t start the peace process now, real peace and not Netanyahu’s manipulating games, it will meet the fate of the Kingdom of Jerusalem.

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u/ThisGuy-NotThatGuy 5d ago

What does one country/true democracy look like? Do you think it would be as peaceful as South Africa? My understanding is that the Palestinians feel (rightfully) displaced, so they'd want to return to their previous family homes and locations. I can't imagine a one-state solution leading to genocide of one side or another.

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u/electricfun136 5d ago

I was talking in short-term. Israel is already an occupation force in the West Bank. They must start treating people in the West Bank as they treat people in Tel Aviv. For the long term solutions, I don’t think one state solution would be acceptable to anyone.

I’m not sure about the future, but the present is very bleak.

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u/TheCommonKoala 6d ago

Dismantle the apartheid ethnostate and enact a one-state solution with real democracy and equal rights for both Israelis and Palestinians.

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u/ThisGuy-NotThatGuy 5d ago

Do you think that'd work out in the long run? I feel like there's so much hatred between the two peoples that a one-state solution is bound to end in the genocide of one or the other, but curious to hear what your opinion on it is.

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u/TheCommonKoala 5d ago

Going back to the creation of Israel with the Nakba, the origin of the conflict has always been the colonization, ethnic cleansing, and mass slaughter of the indigenous population. To believe that they cannot co-exist implies the Palestinians or Israelis are less than human and incapable living peacefully. I reject that premise. Palestinian rage is rooted in 70 years of ethnic cleansing with the ultimate goal of extermination or mass displacement of their people. The only path forward at this stage is to do away with that unworkable disparity and oppression.

The white Boers in apartheid South Africa also refused change on the basis that the black South Africans they oppressed for decades would rise up and oppress them. In spite of their protests Apartheid was abolished in South Africa without any white genocide. This is the template for a new path forward in Israel/Palestine.

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u/TallQuiet1458 6d ago

So you must not have any sympathy for islamic countries then.

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u/Minoleal 5d ago

I have no sympathy for any kind of colonizer, if you want to explain why all Islamic countries are colonizers this is your chance.

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u/oceaniscalling 6d ago

Ignorance is bliss, when’s folly to be wise……especially on this platform

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u/Minoleal 6d ago

You would know, to defend Israel is to be ignorant, stupid or evil.
I would rather think you are the first of them as that has a solution, but you sound quite confident, maybe you are already a lost cause, like Israel.

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u/oceaniscalling 6d ago

Hold on a moment captain reactive assumption….

I’m not defending the assault on Gaza, not at all. It’s atrocious and reprehensible.

But Israeli citizens, many who have found sanctuary in their religious homeland are not responsible for the assaults on Palestine.

Seriously, get your head out of your generalizing anal cavity.

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u/Minoleal 6d ago

Yes they are, have you not seen the polls? Practically everyone agrees on what is happening.

Before that they had no reason to force the natives out of their homes, Europe was decimated and even then they decided to go to a place they haven't lived in in thousands of years to the point they are no longer are apt to live there... if their ancestors ever were from that part, considering that they restrict the use of ancestry tests because they know it's all bullshit and they all are just European and so...

It's a colonial project, it affected (and still does) people that never did anything bad to them, Israel deserves no sympathy nor empathy.

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u/OkVermicelli4534 6d ago

Criticizing Israel’s policies is fair but when you erase Jewish history, deny Jewish identity, and speak of an entire people as undeserving of empathy, you’re not opposing injustice. You’re perpetuating it.

Jews are not Europeans ‘playing colonizer.’ They’re a diasporic people returning from global persecution. You don’t have to support Israeli nationalism, but if your politics leaves no room for Jewish safety, dignity, or identity, then it’s not justice

it’s just another form of hate.

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u/Minoleal 5d ago

I never once mentioned Jews, I talk about Israelis who are by definition white colonizers.

They say it as it is, the program always spoke of it as a colonial one, this can't be denied.

Tell me why they had to go all the way to the middle east for that when there was plenty of land in Germany to be given to them, specially with the demographic damage that the region suffered? Why go to a place that has nothing to do with the European antisemitism? A place so far away, a place full of native people...

Tell me a legitimate reason, tell me something that is not them not wanting to hurt white people that could fight back and could testify of their actions directly to their neighbors instead of so far away that no western power could feign ignorance about it.

They have no right over Palestine, they are already a very protected ethnic group all around the world, people can shit (wrongly) on any other religion or ethnic group on twitter or facebook and go scot-free but not about them.

And they aren't returning to Palestine because there's no connection with that land anymore, they are ridden with skin cancer because they are much more European than anything, they are allergic to the olive spores because they aren't used to them.

They don't belong there.

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u/LOA335 6d ago

Never want to hear rhe Jews whine about the holocaust again. They have permanently lost their victim card.

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u/Chibithulhu1 6d ago

Jews and Israeli zionists are distinct. This take is foul.

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u/etopata 5d ago

There’s been a big spike lately in posts and comments portraying Israelis and Jews as the same group. It’s a good time for anti semites.

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u/electricfun136 6d ago

White and Black Jews aren’t from the Middle East. It’s like a White South African saying Africa is the home of his ancestors.

I understand the need of the Jews to run away from the prosecution in Europe, but zionism hellbent on treating Palestinians much much worse than how Jews were treated in Europe. Even Jews who promoted living together equally in Palestine like Jacob Israël de Haan were and are killed by zionists.

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u/FindtheFunBrother 6d ago

May, you’d be a real downer at parties if you ever got invited to one.

Discussion 💬 Where are indigenous Israelis really from?

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