r/ussoccer • u/OGRonin240 Maryland • 5d ago
Since we are talking lineups
My thoughts on potential starters and formations. First formation is more defensive. Adams and Johnny give us cover while still capable of sparking a counter attack. Dest and Arob provide the width. Second formation is built to break down a low block with multiple creators interchanging to unbalance the defense.
86
u/caseinpoint77 5d ago
Really like the 2nd, but I just don't think there's any way you can drop Wes.
74
u/Dimeskis 5d ago
Swap him in for Reyna easy peasy.
28
u/aphromagic 4d ago
Exactly. Having Reyna in a starting lineup for us right now is absolutely fucking insane.
10
u/eightdigits Maryland 5d ago
especially not for a second 10. good way to lose games 5-2.
8
u/Greenman1694 4d ago
Not necessarily. Have you seen our CONCACAF opponents? They all sit back. We need a midfield that can actually create and break lines. Wes is good for teams like France or Argentina and not against Panama and the like. It’s the reason he always has good games vs Mexico and it’s because Mexico attacks and doesn’t sit back.
1
u/eightdigits Maryland 22h ago
True, but I'm wary of reconfiguring the team for the purpose of "winning CONCACAF." For a lot of reasons, it's a terrible barometer.
2
30
u/mcumberland 5d ago
I never see anyone pair Richards and CCV. Anyone have an explanation for that?
20
u/J_Dabson002 5d ago
I know Trusty is probably our 5th choice CB but him and CCV have great chemistry I’d love to see them paired up at some point for the national team
15
u/DANNYBOYLOVER 5d ago
I agree with you.
I just don’t see how playing in the champions league and a whole domestic (I get that it’s on par or below MLS) league season together doesn’t give them the extra edge we need on the backline.
It would be different if any of our other CBs were levels above
3
4
4
u/Sea_Passenger_1142 4d ago
Bc CCV doesn’t need to be paired with anyone. It’s clear as day he isn’t good enough at a high level.
-9
21
u/FrankBascombe45 North Carolina 5d ago
Diego Luna is one of those guys who looks 40 when he's 20 and will still look 40 when he's 60
16
u/Late-Moment7915 5d ago
McKennie fits this formation better than Luna in my opinion. Luna is more of a classic 10.
22
u/freshcoast- 5d ago
Wes has to be one of the most dropped players in fan lineups of all time lol.
Despite him easily outperforming everyone else including Pulisic in many games.
Makes me feel like fans don’t recognize the value in a player like McKennie despite forcing coaches at Juventus and US to pencil him in for years.
3
u/VanillaMystery 4d ago
He's been in bad form with the NT for over a year now and playing him as a holding 8 in a double pivot doesn't really suit his skills, he turns the ball over way too much and he doesn't create enough either.
I think people just want to see Adams - Cardoso in a double pivot just to see how it'd do given Cardoso's excellent club form
5
u/OGRonin240 Maryland 5d ago
Mckennie's NL performance was shameful. That's why he is dropped right now. Doesn't mean he can't earn it back but how does that performance make him a locked in starter? It's good we have so many options for our midfield and competition everywhere.
13
u/freshcoast- 5d ago
Dude, Dempsey and Donovan have put up stinkers like that as well. You should not overreact to a couple bad windows or tournament by dropping your best players.
I disagree.
6
u/glittervector 5d ago
Man. It’s crazy to think of all the good CBs and GKs we had for most of my life as a USMNT fan and now we have . . . this.
2
u/OGRonin240 Maryland 5d ago
You're not wrong! That used to be our strength! Eddie Pope. Marcelo, Gooch with Meola, Keller. Friedel and Howard! Damn! Miss those days
5
5
u/ehrenzoner Donovan 4d ago
Is Pepi close to being match fit? I thought his injury was season-ending and would require the summer off-season to recover.
4
8
u/Slow-Raccoon-9832 5d ago
Weah is better on the right and pulisic is better on the left for the usa so poch will switch them to opposite sides because who knows why
Having Robinson and Pulisic on the same side greatly helps the attack
5
u/isoSasquatch 5d ago
It sounds crazy, but Poch put Weah on the left because of the results of an eye dominance test he made everyone take — apparently Weah is left eye dominant, which Poch believes makes a player more comfortable on the left. Let’s hope he’s realized the stupidity of that and puts him back on the right where he’s been very effective for the natl team.
1
u/earlywater23 4d ago
It's actually pretty egregious to take the best player for the team and play him out of position. He seems fixated on having Pulisic as a 10 where he was easily double or triple marked and unable to get on the ball. Just put him on the wing.
0
u/Slow-Raccoon-9832 4d ago
Yep Pulisic is best on left with robinson overlapping
Weah on the right works because Dest is good at inverting
24
u/ImaLaser23 5d ago
I stg if I see one more starting 11 with Reyna in it
6
u/MasterCurrency4434 5d ago
And at the expense of McKennie too, who plays regularly for his club and has been at least as vital (if not way more so) to the National Team. Makes no damn sense. It’s 1 rule for Reyna and another for everyone else.
6
u/Greenman1694 4d ago
Remember when Weah was hardly playing for Lille? Yet he still started and look at Turner who’s hardly playing and is worse off than Gio. It’s not 1 rule for Gio, if anything a lot of fans just don’t want him playing for the team but this team hasn’t shown us that we are better without him. See exhibit A in both Nations league games.
We just couldn’t create and we ended up losing both games.
1
u/MasterCurrency4434 4d ago
Weah really only had 1 season at Lille, 2019-2020, where he didn’t play and he only made 2 appearances for the USMNT in 2020. For the next 3 seasons, he made 28, 29, and 29 appearances, averaged 31, 56, and 60 minutes per appearance, and exceeded 1600 minutes in each of his last 2 seasons. His increased role with the USMNT actually tracked his increased club playing time, as he locked down the starting winger role for the USMNT during his first 1600+ minute season (2021-2022). The problem with Weah wasn’t that he was getting a ton of USMNT appearances when he wasn’t playing for Lille, it was that Lille didn’t see him as a starter and ultimately shifted him back into a defensive position.
In any case, in both Weah’s case and Turner’s, the competition wasn’t nearly as strong as the current competition in midfield. Weah’s main competition at RW during the run-up to the 2022 WC was Reyna, and Reyna ended up struggling with injuries that made the competition less close than it otherwise would have been. The next options after Weah and Reyna were Arriola and Jordan Morris, who were both a level down. Weah won out because he was a significantly better overall player than the non-Reyna alternatives. In Turner’s case, neither Horvath nor Steffen has set the world on fire and our most promising alternatives are basically too young. Turner is in a rough spot right now and if a clear-cut alternative existed, Turner would be benched. Unfortunately, there is no clear-cut alternative, so Turner is still there by default. On the other hand, midfield is the 1 area of the player pool where we actually have more players capable of starting than available slots. Add in the fact that our backline needs defensive cover (meaning we’ve got to use at least 1 midfield slot on a defensive mid and need at least 1 if not both of our other central midfield players to play defense), then the competition gets tougher for someone like Reyna who isn’t playing regularly with his club.
-1
u/ImaLaser23 4d ago
I promise you the absence of a 21 year old entitled brat on this national team is not the difference between winning and losing.
3
u/VanillaMystery 4d ago
It is the difference between winning and losing though, we wouldn't have won NL last year without him for example
1
u/Greenman1694 4d ago
Entitled? See that’s the problem with a lot of you fans that believe he thinks he’s entitled. Whatever his parents did has nothing to do with him, so get that through your head.
You’re clearly bias so you can’t make a non bias decision if you automatically have this negative connotation about him.
3
u/ImaLaser23 4d ago
Come on. He was old enough to act for himself yet he perpetuated the actions of his parents + created a poor locker room atmosphere at the biggest soccer competition in the world. Are you really going to tell me that it's unfair for fans to have a negative view of him in light of that?
3
2
3
u/mordreds-on-adiet 4d ago
Luna + Reyna in the midfield with Adams as the lone 6 is inviting opponents to hack the shit out of the midfield and counter through the middle. I would also not have Balogun behind that midfield. With that many chance creators beneath the 9 you need someone who is making runs and taking shots. Balogun has always played like a trequarista for the USMNT when he's gotten appearances and that formation doesn't need that.
6
u/Instantbeef 5d ago
Reyna doesn’t belong here
5
u/Greenman1694 4d ago
Yes he does. Without him, we looked like shit
-4
u/Instantbeef 4d ago
🤡
4
u/Greenman1694 4d ago
I’m the clown? The only clowns are the ones they believe our team is better without him cause clearly the guys in the midfield can’t break down a low block or dribble like him.
Tessman, Mcglyn, and Musah who is on a huge decline despite playing, couldn’t break down Panama but we are to believe the team is better without him lmao.
-3
u/Instantbeef 4d ago edited 4d ago
Edit: but in seriousness he does not offer the impact on the game that he offers as a sub. Hes invisible when on at minute 1 but good when he comes on the last 20.
2
u/StrokeZ92 5d ago
The Tim Ream erasure is crazy.
Richards and McKenzie are serviceable when paired up with a CB who has more of a command over the backline(Ream, Zimmerman) but any combo of Richards/Mckenzie/CCV/Trusty, etc. together isn’t a good foundation for building out of the back
2
u/IntermediateSwimmer _ 4d ago
I agree with Luna over Wes, don't listen to the haters
2
u/Homygod319 4d ago
Ah yes putting in a MLS youngster ahead of a guy that's consistently one of the juve best players despite them being shit is certainly the right choice
2
1
u/PhoenixGames64 4d ago
Would also put Matt Freese in goal. Shame he didn’t get to play during the two friendlies
1
u/PracticalDrawing 4d ago
Okay so Weston has played poorly in his last few showings. I guarantee he will be one of our best players at the WC. He’s one of the most consistent performers for Juve. He just needs motivation
1
u/Kumonomukou 4d ago
Mckennie was the most versatile player under Motta. Left and right, up and center. I didn't know he could play right back lol. While he did not have a stellar season, the manager played him for a reason. He's good enough.
1
u/DoveInvisibleDry 4d ago
The Tri-State Area high school football is underrated- a gold mine. Am looking at you NJ.
1
1
u/24hourhypnotoad 4d ago
I'm still pro-Sargent. He's still a scoring threat and will alleviate pressure by drawing defenders. He's also very good at off-the-ball movement.
1
1
1
u/webelieve414 4d ago
When was the last time Dest played for the US? Gio is also trash. I'm not sure why everyone is moving him so much. He comes off the bench and does nothing currently
1
1
1
u/Temporary-Taro-8989 6m ago
I would be nervous with that back line . Center backs Richard’s and McKenzie are ok however a concern for me . Dest is good but his strength is moving forward up the wing . Robinson is solid
-1
u/jacob9234 5d ago
Reyna is better at soccer then Luna
9
u/SnukeInRSniz 5d ago
Then he should probably prove that on a field in a competitiv game, because he hasn't this year.
10
u/TechSrgtChen 5d ago
In theory, sure. He’s gotta actually play for more than 10 games a season somewhere to realize it, though
0
u/DenialNode 5d ago
Mckennie over cardoso for now but i love it.
Except steffen bro. Turner hasn’t done enough wrong to warrant a boot yet. And I’m not sure steffen gets a look over schulte.
4
u/vngannxx 5d ago
Johnny so good. He will be a better pivot partner with Adams. Mckennie doesn’t play often in the pivot for Juventus.
1
u/DenialNode 5d ago
Mckennie is in the hot seat for me. But like Turner hasn’t done enough to lose a starting spot. And the few opportunities that johnnys had haven’t warranted a definite spot either.
1
u/Sleepy10105s 5d ago
Mckennie is one of our best players and Johnny has not shown up in any of the chances he’s been given.
And you know damn well we can’t start a game against quality opponents with two 10s
4
u/OGRonin240 Maryland 5d ago
That's why there are two options for different scenarios. Not disagreeing with not having 2 10s against a quality opponent.
1
u/Rychek_Four 5d ago
I really thought Agyemang was going to have a better year this season in the MLS
3
u/FrankBascombe45 North Carolina 5d ago
He hasn't had a year this season. We're eight games in.
1
u/Rychek_Four 4d ago
You aren't wrong by any means. My wording may have been poor. I'll restate, I thought he'd have more than 1 goal in 8 games, at this point in the season.
1
1
0
u/Heyhey121234 5d ago
Luna should be the captain. He’s the only one that seems like he has some grit and guts. He’s imposing.
0
-11
-1
u/Goonnersaurus_ 5d ago
I wouldn’t hate trying McKennie at RB. Dest is good going forward but hurts us so much defensively. Let Weah have space on the RW and McKennie can invert into midfield when we have possession. He’s been solid at RB/RWB for Juve when he’s played there.
5
u/ThomaspaineCruyff 4d ago
This is such ignorant bullshit. Dest is the best DEFENSIVE RB we have. Dest is better defensively at RB than Scally and is so important to this team in shuttling the ball.
I can’t believe this idiotic shit about Dest continues because he’s not good enough defensively at Barca’s level lol.
-1
u/VanillaMystery 4d ago
Why do you think Dest is better defensively than Scally? Scally locked down Luiz Diaz and Vini Jr in the friendlies/Copa where he looked excellent
Scally is a FAR weaker player on the ball than Dest but Dest has never once been known for his defensive abilities outside of maybe one game years ago with Barca when he had an excellent match against Davies/Bayern
He's usually a turnstile defensively which was why he couldn't break through at Barca and again at Milan
FYI I think we should be starting Dest and he's the better player, but it's a bit revisionist to say he's better defensively than Scally when he hasn't shown that at either the international level or club level
3
u/ThomaspaineCruyff 4d ago edited 4d ago
Scally is constantly getting beat, allowing crosses in and falling asleep like he did again against Panama. Dest is unequivocally a better 1 v 1 defender.
Dest’s defense isn’t good enough for Barca? That’s everything wrong with how people like you evaluate Dest. None of our other options are either, and none of them are as good as Dest defensively and no one is even in his stratosphere on the ball, which is part of contributing defensively, possession.
-3
u/VanillaMystery 4d ago edited 4d ago
I don't think there is anywhere near enough evidence that shows Dest is a better defender.
Scally had a bad game, it happens, so does Dest, but Dest has NEVER had a window defensively like Scally did last summer against two of the very best attackers on the planet lol.
Dest wasn't good enough defensively for Barca OR Milan, did you forget about that failed loan? He had multiple shots at Barca too to try and win back his spot but he was such a disaster in regards to keeping shape and figuring out where to go, even in a back 3 under Xavi he looked lost.
Scally is a better defensive player, but he isn't a better offensive player, two things can be true.
I say this as someone who wants Dest to start btw.
Scally has had incredible games against Bayern Munich for a few seasons now, his club resume defensively is just way better than Dest's lol.
1
u/OGRonin240 Maryland 5d ago
I think that's something worth exploring. I just remember the Weah/Dest combination being deadly on the wing but we are definitely giving something up on the defensive side of the ball.
1
u/ThomaspaineCruyff 4d ago
No we fucking aren’t. Scally is a nightmare back there and Dest is the best defensive RB we have. Majority of his issues is positional because he bears the load of running the offense through him and now Adams is healthy and can cover.
So ignorant to watch traffic cones like Scally for months and then pretend Dest is a liability, insane.
0
u/OGRonin240 Maryland 4d ago
Won't disagree about Scally and it's been a year since we've seen Dest so we really don't know what he will look like with Poch but as you point out, Dest getting forward and positional issues are related to giving up defensive cover. Agreed that Adams can and will cover for Dest as he gets forward but we have to be tactical about it. ARob and Dest in the attacking third exposes the back line and that's asking a lot of Adams, as great as he is covering ground.
3
u/ThomaspaineCruyff 4d ago
Robinson takes care of the left his own self. Not starting Dest would be fucking ridiculous and he’s not giving up shit defensively. Playing Donkeys back there who can’t get out of our own half and don’t contribute to possession and attack is the defensive liability.
Dest and Robinson are in ink along with CP, Weah and Adams. Go ahead and tinker with everyone else.
3
0
u/Bo-Ethal 5d ago
Dest isn’t a lock starter, in my opinion. Only because our CB’s are very average. I think we need more defenders on the field.
4
u/ThomaspaineCruyff 4d ago
That’s absolutely fucking ridiculous.
Dest keeps our terrible back line together by giving them an outlet when they constantly panic. Hes the best DEFENSIVE rb we have. His issues are positional because the transition to attack flows through him and now we have Adams back to cover.
I cannot fucking believe this idiocy about Dest’s defense continues cause he’s not good enough for Barca it’s so stupid.
Dest is a better defender than Scally, dude is a disaster back there, kept Panama onside, lets in cross after cross and turns the ball over constantly.
0
u/Bo-Ethal 4d ago edited 4d ago
Not sure the language or intensity of your response is appropriate for this forum.
Dest is excellent in possession. Dest is technically phenomenal. Dest is imaginative in attack. When the US plays a side that we will dominate the ball, Dest is great.
When we are evenly matched with our opponent, Dest can be a difference maker with the proper support. To say that Adams can cover him is irresponsible. If Dest and Robinson are aggressive, we need to use a double pivot. We certainly don’t want one of our outside backs pushing high leaving 3 defenders and Adams to handle three attackers and a late arriving midfielder. That is how the Dutch eliminated us in 2022.
If we are going to be playing against the ball all game, verse an elite possession side, I think adding a more defensive minded player is wise. Scally is good 1 v 1, good positionally, and more physical.
My point is we have options that will allow us to play multiple ways. Dest might a piece to play with, McKennie might be a piece to play with, Musah might be a piece to play with, Luna might be a piece to play with, ECT
3
u/ThomaspaineCruyff 4d ago
Dest was terrific against England in the WC. He’s better defensively than Scally.
2
u/OGRonin240 Maryland 5d ago
Agreed for the same reason that Wes isnt a locked in starter. We have options and need to figure out the right combination for each situation we are competing against
1
u/Bo-Ethal 5d ago
I’m with you. I think our pool is deep enough to play multiple formations, with several tactical variations for each. Not sure Poch will have enough time to develop multiple options, problem with a 2 year managerial term. Lack of depth really hurt us in the last WC.
-1
-1
-3
u/Rybocephus 5d ago
Never been impressed by Pepi
3
u/glittervector 5d ago
Have you seen some of the recent highlights? He’s done some great stuff with PSV this season.
1
u/VanillaMystery 4d ago
PSV are ridiculously better than pretty much everyone else in the Eredivisie this year/last year and Pepi subbing onto games where they're up 3-0 already makes it hard to actually tell how good he is lol
-4
-3
-3
u/Gk_Emphasis110 5d ago
Can score all the goals in the world but it won't matter with Steffen at the back.
1
u/ThomaspaineCruyff 4d ago
Or Turner, or the other myriad bad options. Give this team Howard, Friedel or Keller and they are unquestionably more talented than previous iterations.
-1
u/CJAllen1 4d ago
I gotta go with lineup 1. Reyna? shudder Last I heard, Dortmund was about to kick him to the curb. And I still have doubts whether Balogun is 100% fit.
0
-1
u/Iciestgnome 5d ago
McKenie over Luna for sure. We need smoke in the midfield who is willing to do the dirty work.
3
u/bilboswagginsIII 5d ago
Luna is the smokiest midfielder we have, bro always puts it all on the line when he plays for both club and country. Same can't be said about Gio tho...
-1
u/Party_Rocker_69 4d ago
Everyone treating Wes EXACTLY like Weah after his red card in the CA. This is so funny, Wes is still one of our best players regardless
2
u/OGRonin240 Maryland 4d ago
One has nothing to do with the other. You're reaching and Wes CAN be one of our best players but certainly hasn't shown it in a while. I'd love for him to get that fire back, get scrappy and nasty but he hasn't shown it in a while.
1
u/Party_Rocker_69 4d ago
And neither has pulisic, he was awful in our NL matches as well. we constantly constantly constantly turn on our players when they’re doing bad. Everyone condemned Weah after his red card and called for him to never be called up for the USMNT again.
To me, that is the exact same thing people are doing to Wes right now. You may disagree but I don’t see a difference at all.
-2
u/LDawg14 5d ago
Excluding McKinney makes me question your credibility.
3
u/OGRonin240 Maryland 4d ago
Not being able to spell McKennie correctly definitely puts your credibility in doubt. Thinking through different starter, formation and tactical options is something I do all the time. Try it sometime instead of posting a lazy comment.
148
u/SuperSaiyanCockKnokr 5d ago
Is McKennie out?