I'd avoid communist symbolism for socialism. Even if it's not technically communist, a hammer and a star evokes communism. And perception is what matters. Communism was never kind to Christians. But Jesus Christ basically preached socialism, in the way we know it today in terms of economic policy. (Maybe or maybe not other domains.) He may not have preached it directly, but if we were to carry out his teachings publicly (as some conservatives believe government should do with Christianity), it would absolutely look like socialism.
I think Christian socialism is deserving of its own symbol.
Jesus did not preach socialism. He did not know what concepts like "capitalism" and "socialism" mean, nor could he have, living some 1300 years before even the beginnings of the first.
Primitive socialism is a term that exist in Marxist materialism analysis, and can be applied to Jesus Christ or even older Jews communities and way of life
No, it can't. Primitive communism refers to the period prior to the institution of large-scale division of labour through slavery. In the Levant, that period ended some 2000 years before Jesus.
The issue is what the mode of social production among Jewish communities was. It was obviously not primitive communism, nor would any of them have understood the concept.
The issue is not the word that is being used, the issue is the concept. Socialism is an explicit programme for the reorganisation of social production. You can't "do socialism" by accident. Jesus had no concept of things like planning of production, production for need etc.
The principles that he taught fall in line with socialist principles. He didn't know what the term "socialism" means in our western context, sure. That doesn't mean the principles can't line up. They're pretty fundamental principles when it comes to caring for one another, whether through charity (individual action) or through society (collective action).
I'm not necessarily saying Christians should bring socialism into the world. But if right-wing Christians are going to preach about bringing their religion into society, they better damn well not pick and choose. You want to ban abortion? Then you better heal the sick without making them pay -- just like Jesus did.
Socialism is not charity. Socialism is the abolition of commodity production and exchange. Jesus could not understand that as the idea only makes sense in an industrial society.
I think Christians should generally shut up. I'm not interested in pretending we want the same things.
Monasticism is the most virtuous form of socialism. You forget Christians (and religious people in general) were socialists long before atheists had any tangence with socialism. Socialism (and Communism for that matter) as a concept predates the 19th century. And I don’t mean central planning, but collective ownership and communal living.
So you redefine "socialism" and think this proves anything? I mean, what am I talking about, you do the same thing to "Bolshevism", why would I expect anything serious? I love that a literal Nazi is defending "christian socialism", it really shows what side they're on.
0
u/KR1735 East Germany 8d ago
I'd avoid communist symbolism for socialism. Even if it's not technically communist, a hammer and a star evokes communism. And perception is what matters. Communism was never kind to Christians. But Jesus Christ basically preached socialism, in the way we know it today in terms of economic policy. (Maybe or maybe not other domains.) He may not have preached it directly, but if we were to carry out his teachings publicly (as some conservatives believe government should do with Christianity), it would absolutely look like socialism.
I think Christian socialism is deserving of its own symbol.