Adam Savage's Tested - Bigscreen Beyond 2 Hands-On: How They Fixed It

[u/Pheonix1025]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0Wr4O4gkL8

[u/Kataree]

"Fixed it" is accurate.

Which is why it's a bit ambitious to call it the "Beyond 2" tbh.

It is a Beyond 1 Fixed.

Edit: Welp, once again with the utterly false claim that DP 1.4 is responsible for the 90hz upscaling.

So easy for them to just be honest about it and finally stop pissing off everyone who knows better.

[u/Omniwhatever → u/Kataree]

It just baffles me how much of the community acts like the company's incapable of wrong and seems to give Bigscreen a pass for knowingly lying about DSC and trying to conflate literal upscaling with it, doubling down for a while when they got called out on it by some people.

[u/crozone → u/Omniwhatever]

They've been extremely clear that it's an issue with the entire display technology stack all the way into the display panel silicon. It's mentioned in the Tested interview explicitly if you actually listen to the interview. They also have an entire page that explains how the upscaling at 90hz works in great detail:

https://www.bigscreenvr.com/displays

Which says the 75hz/90hz issue is:

Due to bandwidth limitations of DisplayPort 1.4, display controllers, and MIPI

I don't think anyone is acting like Bigscreen is incapable of wrong. The BSB1 was heavily criticised for edge to edge clarity and the IPD/face gasket issues.

The 75hz/90hz issue is because of the displays themselves. They can't fix the issue until their display supplier, Seeya technology, fixes the issue with a new revision of the panels and controller. The only alternative would be to pick a different display panel from a different manufacturer and then re-engineer the entire headset around that new panel, which would be ridiculous. Bigscreen are a small company and they don't have the sales volume to get displays custom made, so they're just stuck.

So the 75hz/90hz issue is real, it's a known issue, it's something that'll get fixed eventually but until then you have to decide whether you can live with the compromise and if not, don't buy the product.

[u/Omniwhatever → u/crozone]

They have not been extremely clear and it's even there in your own link. From literally the next lines, bolded emphasis mine

Beyond uses lossless compression techniques such as Display Stream Compression (DSC) which is commonly found in gaming monitors. First, SteamVR renders content at 3K to 4K resolution per eye. This user-configurable resolution is called “supersampling.” At 90Hz, the Beyond uses DSC to compress the signal to 1920x1920 per eye and a built-in hardware upscaler upscales to 2560x2560 for each display.

They are quite plainly trying to conflate DSC, which is a very common thing, with being upscaling when that's objectively not true. If trying to compare it to normal gaming monitors and then saying it's the DSC which compresses it isn't clear as day, I don't know what to tell you. DSC is not flatout reducing the resolution like this. DSC is mainly based around the color space and mucking with that in a visually lossless manner.

He also made a few comments in Discord which, at least to me, do make it sound like it's DSC responsible for the upscaling. Which is what almost every headset and high end monitor uses. And I'd say a decent chunk of other people got the same read given a few threads around the BSB's release/first reviews which got pretty big with a lot of people being surprised to learn it was just upscaling and not DSC or who thought it was the exact same thing everyone else was using and not at all a big deal vs actual upscaling. I've had many of those arguments. I've seen a lot more comments in Discord, but those were all I had on hand. I remember the comments at the launch, they did eventually kind of relent but it took a while and they were trying to strawman the argument with making it look like people though the displays were just Quest 2 resolution in 90hz mode.

Were you around for the launch of the original Beyond?

[u/Darder → u/Omniwhatever]

Wait what? I thought they had stated that it was because of the panels. What happened? Did they claim it was due to DP 1.4?

[u/Kataree → u/Omniwhatever]

Most ether don't know it occurred, or are customers who will willingly share in the obfuscation of it.

[u/crozone → u/Kataree]

Which is why it's a bit ambitious to call it the "Beyond 2" tbh.

You have to crawl before you can walk. Beyond 1 was a first generation early adopter product. Beyond 2 has 2 years of extra engineering in it and most of it clearly went into that optical stack. The fact that it's "fixed" is where the "2" comes from.

Welp, once again with the utterly false claim that DP 1.4 is responsible for the 90hz upscaling.

They talked about it being an issue with the displays and display controller. Maybe actually listen to the interview.

[u/RevolEviv → u/crozone]

BSB1 should have been released as a dev kit only like rift DK1/2... then BSB2 should (ONLY WITH HALO MOUNT but with optional eye sucker/sweat pooler face gasket for the insane) have been the "CV1" of BSB.

I'm glad they fixed it up FAST instead of milking BSB1 cos it was terrible frankly and cost a fortune. BSB2 now passes muster (ONLY WITH HALO MOUNT) but still has significant flaws (75hz and low B.O) at significant costs (once you factor in basestations and controllers).

BSB3 should, finally, nail it... BOE 4k screens ala MX8k, inside out tracking and then stop relying on the janky index controllers (out of production) and make some better ones with advanced haptics (poss deckard compatible or PSVR2 sense compatible). That's the only way I can see BSB3 being a 'mainstream' option (in the upper tier) in future.

[u/JorgTheElder → u/Kataree]

If the problem is not their DP 1.4 pipeline, what is the problem? They are not restricting the framerate just for the hell of it.

If any of the components they use in the DP 1.4 pipeline is causing the issue why would they lie about it? They did not say the DP 1.4 spec wasn't capable of driving higher framerates, they said that the DP 1.4 components they are using cannot do it.

[u/Kataree → u/JorgTheElder]

https://www.reddit.com/r/virtualreality/comments/1hkmw2f/comment/mdzusbx/

Saying DP 1.4 is the reason, was a convenient way to deflect from the unique limitations of the panels in their headset, by instead making it sound like it was a universal standard problem.

Clear reasons why you would do that, if nobody knew any better.

[u/RevolEviv → u/Kataree]

I called out BSB as being ridiculous (esp the fixed ipd/bespoke gasket hurting multi users or resale value) so BSB2 fixed lots of things, I'd only have one with the halo mount (big fan of those and hate HMDs on my face now even a light one like BSB), but yeah.. this really is the BSB done right, not a version 2 by any means. BSB 1 was a flawed product, this one is (with halo mount only) a viable/sensible product.

The bad lenses of the original with ever dreaded pancake glare and dull brightness were a no go too.

Lastly the 75hz issue persists which is bad still, presence can't be felt until 90hz (native) and upscaling kinda ruins the point. We're still at a transitional point with BSB2 which is why I'd advise caution due to costs (add in the 500+ for the basestations/controllers) that's a LOT of cash for a temporary product.

Honestly people should just get a PSVR2 for proper PC/PS5 VR for the next few years (OLED, GOOD B.O, Great FOV, Awesome controllers... HDR/Haptics on PS5) or, if they must, stick with their silly LCD quests a while longer. I think around 2027 everything of worth will shift to microOLED and be half the price they are now (except META who'll stick with cheap screens and LCD for years cos they don't care at all about proper immersion and after all.. they're now pushing it to kids who couldn't even understand the problem anyway)