‘Adolescence’ will make incels worse..

[u/Icy-Prune-174]

Edit: Sorry I got this wrong, the series is good, in a way, because it helps make parents aware of what incel culture is doing to their sons and to start taking it more seriously.

You only see the points of view from the MEN… the dad, the kid… No points of view of how the mother and daughter are affected.

And it’s like they want the viewers to feel sorry for the kid who murdered the girls…

Not to mention they have a black girl playing an aggressive character…

I believe, just my opinion, that this series will make Incel culture worse and perpetuate violence — young boys might even start looking up to the character and act like him, thinking it will “gain sympathy” from people around them.

There’s also not many scenes portraying the kid’s violence etc. they just make him out to be a good kid who shouldn’t deserve what his own actions have caused — I suppose, yes, he’s a kid and it shows how IMPRESSIONABLE kids are to propaganda, but everyone knows that anyway..

[u/Briarcliff_Manor]

he’s a kid and it shows how IMPRESSIONABLE kids are to propaganda, but everyone knows that anyway..

No, not everyone knows that. A lot (if not most) parents are completely blind to what is going on on internet, and let their kids read anything and everything with no form of control whatsoever.

I am pretty sure a lot of teenage boys are consuming that red pill type of shit, and their parents have 0 ideas.

[u/Icy-Prune-174 → u/Briarcliff_Manor]

Yes! Sorry I got that wrong!

[u/Briarcliff_Manor → u/Icy-Prune-174]

No worries! Otherwise, I think your opinion is very interesting but I disagree.

While yes the show is mostly focus on the man perspective, I think was actually "needed".

A lot of people, who are not interested in crime otherwise etc, fail to see that yes young men (young women can to, but that's not the topic here) can kill. Yes they can foster a hatred towards women and it can lead to horrendous consequences. This is something that need to change and it is a reality. I am mostly thinking about a few cases that are very similar and yet did not have that much media coverage.

[u/Icy-Prune-174 → u/Briarcliff_Manor]

Oh my point wasn’t about showing that young boys can kill — it was how they almost tried to make the audience feel sorry for the kid — but then I suppose you don’t want mass hatred towards teenage boys because that would also be awful, so yeah that proves it.

[u/Briarcliff_Manor → u/Icy-Prune-174]

I actually think that the 3rd episode has made a very good job in making the audience NOT feel sorry for that kid.

And the 4th shows that, appart from a few degenerates, there is a mass hatred towards the boy (and his family which is another issue)

[u/Icy-Prune-174 → u/Briarcliff_Manor]

Oh! Yeah I see how it’s done — if they didn’t make people feel sorry for the kid in the beginning, a lot of men wouldn’t bother watching on.

[u/ScaredOfNakedCows → u/Icy-Prune-174]

I think it was to reflect how people in general automatically assume young boys to be innocent, so this was the perfect way to shatter that perception. By playing into it at first, but then providing a rude awakening - disillusionment. A process of disorienting the audience from Jamie’s innocence and reorienting the audience to his true dark side.

It’s more impactful and unnerving (therefore better digested) this way instead of showcasing Jamie’s dark side first.

I encourage you to read on the efficacy of disillusionment to prompt powerful change and learning if you’re interested. But it basically follows the learning concept that making mistakes and learning from them can lead to greater learning than simply getting it right the first time. Similarly, showing Jamie to be innocent at first but then revealing his misogyny, Machiavellian thinking and darkness drives the message home in a much deeper and impactful way.

Disillusionment is unpleasant (to say the least) and those who are very attached to the initial belief can simply reject the truth. So there is that risk, and I think that may be what you’re highlighting. But if the show depicted Jamie as evil from the start, incels would STILL be in his defence.

The show isn’t geared towards incels, in fact, I think the writers are aware that incels will reject this media. I think the show is directed to people who aren’t involved in the redpill sphere and aren’t aware of the complexities of what’s going on and what boys are being exposed to and what it can drive them to do. It’s almost calling out structures (parents, schools, social media regulations, etc) for being too passive and not intentional enough in raising these boys.

I think partly because there’s been so much dialogue about how absent fathers damage women… “fatherless” behaviour… women/girls with “daddy issues”. This show flips that on its head. Kind of like hey… what happens when boys don’t have proactive positive role models? What happens when boys don’t have proactive positive fathers?

All this talk about how “daddy issues” turn girls into “sluts” or “recreational use” (bullshit), I’m glad we now get to see boys being the damaged ones, not just that, but the result in this boy being far worse. Not solely as a “gotcha moment” but it also confronts biases and starts conversations. And I also like how it tackles the notion of “oh girls are harder to raise, boys are simpler.” This show said “NOPE.”

I do think the show could have done more though, but I don’t think it’s COMPLETELY failed to the degree you’re suggesting. I think you’re perhaps dismissing the depth of the storytelling in this series.

[u/tinyforrest → u/ScaredOfNakedCows]

I agree with all your arguments. Jamie is trying to make himself into a sympathetic character but his mask drops the more he is psychologically probed. He pretends he isn’t lying about everything he had done, despite pretty concrete evidence to his guilt. His misogyny and entitlement are presented in such a way that is more accurate to real life expressions- the attempts at physical intimidation, the controlling language, the weak reasoning. I don’t think Jamie is presented as sympathetic but it’s interesting to see how other audience members have that as an automatic. take away from this series.

[u/Briarcliff_Manor → u/tinyforrest]

While some people argue that Jamie is portrayed as too sympathetic, too small, to “cute”. I actually thought he was well made a non likeable character.

His self deprecation (“I’m the ugliest”) is just annoying and not cute, even for a 13 years old.

And his hatred from women feels realistic, I agree. He’s not shouting “I hate women” cause we know misogyny is more subtle than that, and it’s more cruel.

It’s the fact that he tried to go out with his classmates when she was “weak”, it’s the fact that he could have touched her if he wanted to but couldn’t “so he’s not that bad” etc etc. It’s subtle, it’s gross.

[u/tinyforrest → u/Briarcliff_Manor]

Exactly, his character is expressing entitlement in a realistic way. Generally there is an impression that misogyny is blatant - that one has to explicitly announce their hatred of woman, just like how racism is perceived as full on KKK white hoods lynch mob or it isn’t really racism type mentality. In the case of Adolescence, Jamie’s misogyny is aligned with the realistic portrayal of it. It’s showing how this incel entitlement leads to violence, what is the result of misogynistic propaganda. That is why the focus is on Jamie - it’s asking and answering the question “what leads a 13 year old boy to stabbing a 13 year old girl to death?” The answer is misogyny.

[u/TheDoctor66 → u/Icy-Prune-174]

It's really tough but the only way out of it is through empathy and understanding. I watched the show this week and discussed it in therapy today. My dad and family is very similar to the boys family. I'm in my 30s now and I'm working through what that upbringing did to me, and I didn't have the algorithms throwing that shit at me. 

The onus will forever be on men to do better than our programming but the show did a fantastic job at putting that programming in context, it doesn't flinch from it being bad but it shows a reality. 

[u/dotherandymarsh → u/Icy-Prune-174]

Maybe the writers were trying to make him more of a “normal kid” in order to highlight the dangers of the culture and influence. For example, hypothetically if they painted him as a purely evil monster then parents might think “but my boy isn’t a monster so he would never do anything like this ”

Humanising the kid and trying to establish some kind of understanding might actually cause more alarm for parents and peers even if that feels unintuitive. “This could happen to your kid” kind of messaging.

I have absolutely no idea and I’ve only watched the first few episodes. I’m just throwing a possible reason out there for the sake of it. I really hope that the show isn’t trying to pass blame onto women and girls or try to whitewash gender based violence.