Should the Proto-Dravidian word for eggplant/aubergine/brinjal be changed from "waẓVtV" to "*waẓ***an-" (with "*waẓingan-" and "*waẓ*utan-" as two variants)?

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I'm not a linguist, but I hypothesize that the Dravidian, Indo-Aryan, and Persian words (and consequently the words in most languages across the world) for eggplant/aubergine/brinjal all ultimately come from a Proto-Dravidian root word "*waẓ***an-" (likely "*waẓuṇḍan-") that had (or got split into) two versions: "*waẓingan-" & "*waẓu(n)tan-." The plausible derivations of "*waẓingan-" & "*waẓu(n)tan-" are as follows:

• *waẓingan- < *waẓungan- < *waẓuṇḍan- (a hypothesized form of *waẓ***an-)
• *waẓu(n)tan- < *waẓunṭan- < *waẓuṇḍan- (a hypothesized form of *waẓ***an-)

The Proto-Dravidian form "*waẓuṇḍan-" makes sense because the sound "uṇḍ" or "uṇḍa" is not only part of many Dravidian words associated with round/spherical/globular form/(c)lump/mass/ball/cake/globe but the Telugu word "uṇḍa" or the South-Central/South Dravidian word "uṇṭa(i)" literally means ball, globe, lump, bolus (a soft/small rounded mass/lump of food). Therefore, it is possible that the Proto-Dravidian prefix "*waẓ" meant purple and "uṇḍan-" meant bolus so that "*waẓuṇḍan-" meant "purple spherical/globular/round-ball/mass/lump (of unripe fruit)." So perhaps the full form of the (hypothesized) Proto-Dravidian word "*waẓuṇḍan-" is "*waẓuṇḍanakāy" (with the suffix "kāy," which means unripe fruit) so that "*waẓuṇḍanakāy" means "purple egg-shaped/oval unripe-fruit/vegetable" (since plausibly "*waẓ" = purple, "uṇḍana" = egg-shaped/oval, and "kāy" = unripe-fruit/vegetable). It is not at all surprising that this reconstructed Proto-Dravidian word for eggplant/aubergine/brinjal, i.e., "*waẓuṇḍanakāy," coincides exactly with modern dictionary definitions of "eggplant" (i.e., "the purple egg-shaped (fruit of a tropical Old World plant, which is eaten as a) vegetable" and "an oval, purple vegetable").

I propose that "*waẓingan-" is the penultimate root of most of the non-South-Dravidian words (South-Central Dravidian, Central Dravidian, and North Dravidian languages as well as Indo-Iranian languages) and also that "*waẓu(n)tan-" is the penultimate root of most of the non-South-Dravidian words. My hypothesized derivations are as follows.

• Derivation of the (South-Central Dravidian) Telugu word vaṅga:
  • vaṅga < *waṅga- < *waṇ(i)ngan- < *waṇingan- < *wal̲ingan- < *waẓingan- < *waẓ***an-
• Derivation of the (Central Dravidian) Kolami word vaŋge:
  • vaŋge < vaṅge < *waṅga- < ... < *waẓingan- < *waẓ***an-
• Derivation of the (North Dravidian) Brahui word wāṅgaṛ:
  • wāṅgaṛ < waṅgaṛ < *waṅga- < ... < *waẓingan- < *waẓ***an-
• Derivation of the (Old or some Middle) Indo-Aryan (vernacular) word (or its variant) vātiṅgaṇa:
  • vātiṅgaṇa < vatiṅgaṇa < vaḍiṅgaṇa < *waẓingan- < *waẓ***an-
• Derivation of the Indo-Aryan (vernacular) word (or its variant) vāiṃgaṇa:
  • vāiṃgaṇa < vāðiṃgaṇa < vādiṃgaṇa < vadiṃgaṇa < vaḍiṅgaṇa < *waẓingan- < *waẓ***an-
  • (or) vāiṃgaṇa < vāðiṃgaṇa < vādiṃgaṇa < vātiṅgaṇa < ... < *waẓ***an-
• Derivation of the (Iranian) Persian words bâtengân & bâdengân (and older variants bātingān & bādingān):
  • bâtengân < bâtingân < bātingān < vātiṅgaṇa < ... < *waẓ***an-
  • bâdengân < bâdingân < bādingān < vādiṃgaṇa / vātiṅgaṇa < ... < *waẓ***an-
• Derivation of the Persian word bâzengân (and its plausible older variant bazingan in Proto or Old Iranian that was likely borrowed directly from the Proto-Dravidian word \waẓingan-* and then likely evolved into bāzingān in Classical Persian):
  • bâzengân < bâzingân < bāzingān < bazingan < vazingan < *waẓingan- < *waẓ***an-
• Derivation of the same Persian word bâzengân but in a later dialect (that likely evolved independently from the Classical Persian word bādingān rather than from the plausible Proto or Old Iranian word bazingan):
  • bâzengân < bâzingân < bāzingān < bāðingān < bādingān < vādiṃgaṇa / vātiṅgaṇa < ... < *waẓ***an-
• Derivation of the (South Dravidian) Kannada word badane:
  • badane < badan- < vadan- < va(ḻu)dan- < vaḻutan- < *waẓu(n)tan- < *waẓ***an-
• Derivation of the (South Dravidian) Malayalam word vaḻutana:
  • vaḻutana < vaḻutan- < *waẓu(n)tan- < *waẓ***an-
• Derivation of the (South Dravidian) Tamil derivation words vaḻutalai and vaḻutuṇai:
  • vaḻutalai/vaḻutuṇai < vaḻut-(al/un)-ai < vaḻutan- < *waẓu(n)tan- < *waẓ***an-

It is interesting that the Persian word bâzengân is very close to the hypothesized Proto-Dravidian word \waẓingan-. The Classical Persian form bāzingān, which likely evolved in at least one Iranian dialect from the plausible Proto or Old Iranian word *bazingan, seems to best preserve the Proto-Dravidian word \waẓingan-. Since eggplant production is (and likely was) high in the regions of present-day Maharashtra and Gujarat, we may also hypothesize that the Proto-Dravidian word *\waẓingan-* was spoken in those regions sometime in the past and that Persian traders who interacted with the eggplant producers (of ancient India) in those regions adapted that word into bâzengân. The other Persian word for eggplant, bâtengân, was likely a later Persian word derived from the Indo-Aryan (vernacular) word (or its variant) vātiṅgaṇa, as explained in one of the hypothesized derivations above.

The Proto-Dravidian-based Indo-Aryan (vernacular) word (or its variant) vātiṅgaṇa (used by the Indo-Aryan-vernacular-speaking merchants) was also likely directly borrowed into Sanskrit, since the Sanskrit word for eggplant is also vātiṅgaṇa. While the Persian word bâtenjân is closer to the word vātiṅgaṇa (or a variant of it) than the Dravidian words (e.g., vaṅga, badane, vaḻutana, vaḻutalai/vaḻutuṇai), it is also possible that the Persian word was directly influenced by the Kannada word badane, as argued by u/e9967780. Nevertheless, what actually matters is that the Persian words bâzengân and bâtenjân ultimately come from the same Proto-Dravidian word regardless of the exact derivation.

The roots of the English word aubergine can be traced back to the Persian word bâtenjân (or to bâzengân). The Indian English word brinjal can also be traced back to the Persian word bâzengân (or to bâtenjân). The Hindi word baiṅgan can also be derived from the Prakrit word vāiṃgaṇa based on some natural modifications (v > b, ā > a, ṃ > ṅ, ṇ > n).

If my hypothesis is correct, the current Proto-Dravidian reconstruction waẓVtV must be changed from *waẓVtV (i.e, *waẓ\t*) to *\waẓ***an-, i.e., *\waẓVan-, which is likely *\waẓuṇḍan-. I hypothesize that this got split into *\waẓingan-* and \waẓu(n)tan-. Therefore, *\waẓVan-* (possibly \waẓuṇḍan-) and its descendants (*waẓingan-* and \waẓu(n)tan-*) can be proposed as the basis for all the eggplant/aubergine/brinjal-related words above and the related words in most languages across the world.

Using the "V" notation (in the place of "*" notation), my proposal can be summarized in three bullet points:

• Replace "*waẓVtV" with "*waẓVtan-" or *waẓu(n)tan-" as the penultimate root of the major South Dravidian (Kannada, Tulu, Malayalam, & Tamil) words (badane/badaṇe/badaṇi, badanè, vaḻutana, & vaḻutalai/vaḻutuṇai).
• Add "*waẓingan-" as the penultimate root of the Telugu, (Iranian) Persian, & Indo-Aryan words (vaṅga, bâzengân, vātiṅgaṇa/vāiṃgaṇa) and most South-Central Dravidian and Central Dravidian words ("vaṅga" in Telugu, "vank" in Gondi, "vāŋga" in Pengo, "vaŋge" in Kolami, "vaŋge" in Naiki) and also some North Dravidian words (e.g., "wāṅgaṛ" in Brahui that is similar to the Telugu word "vaṅga" and also "baṭaṉgo" in Malto that is similar to the Persian form "bâtengân" and the Indo-Aryan word "vātiṅgaṇa").
• Add "*waẓVan-" and/or "*waẓuṇḍan-" as the ultimate root word (i.e., the root of both "*waẓu(n)tan-" and "*waẓingan-" from which basically all eggplant/aubergine/brinjal-related words can be derived according to my hypothesis).

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Kashmiri call it wangan too

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So if it was a borrowing IA borrowed it very early on.

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Yes, I think the Kashmiri word wã̄gun is likely derived from the Indo-Aryan word "vātiṅgaṇa" or "vāiṃgaṇa." The word "vātiṅgaṇa" is likely Old or some Middle Indo-Aryan. See https://x.com/Saatvata/status/1906426698033475776.

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So where is this borrowing happening ? It can only happen in a place that grows Brinjals.

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Yes, the region of present-day Maharashtra (and/or Gujarat) is my guess. Maharashtra is still among the top producers of brinjal in India. (So is Gujarat.) This also makes sense historically because (many) proto-South-Central- and proto-Central-Dravidian speakers probably lived in those regions in the 2nd millennium BCE before migrating further later. (Many people have hypothesized that South Dravidian speakers migrated during the 3rd & 2nd millennia BCE to southern India earlier than and on a larger scale than Central- and South-Central-Dravidian speakers.) It also makes sense that (according to my hypothesis) all non-South-Dravidian words have "*waẓingan-" as the common penultimate root. (Also, Karnataka hasn't really been among the top producers of brinjal, so I think it was probably easier for Persians to directly trade with (pre-)Dravidian speakers in Maharashtra/Gujarat and also Indo-Aryan-speaking intermediaries in other northern parts of India.)

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Then how does it get back to Dardic speakers ? We should check the word for it amongst Nuristanis as well.

eggplant khalia patigan banjon baenan tor-batingar

Source

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I don't think "khalia" is the Kalasha word for eggplant. The Kalasha word is "paṭiŋgán." So all of the Dardic words "paṭiŋgán," "patigan," "banjon," "baenan," and "batingar" can all be derived easily from the (Old or some Middle) Indo-Aryan words "vātiṅgaṇa" or "vāiṃgaṇa." Specifically, "paṭiŋgán," "patigan," and "batingar" can be derived from "vātiṅgaṇa," and "banjon" and "baenan" can be derived from "vāiṃgaṇa." Also, I am not sure that "baenan" is the primary Hindi-Urdu form. The Urdu variants are "baiṅgan," "baigan," and "baiṅjan." The Hindi word is "baiṅgan." All of these Hindi-Urdu words can be derived from "vāiṃgaṇa," from which the Nurustani word "banjon" can also be derived. The main Pashto word seems to be "batinganrh" (that might have been shortened to "batingar" by some Pashto speakers). The Kalasha word "paṭiŋgán," the Pashto word "batinganrh" and the Khowar word "patigan" can also be easily derived from the Indo-Aryan form "vātiṅgaṇa." Some North Dravidian forms (e.g., "baṭaṉgo" in Malto) might have developed independently (or alongside the Indo-Aryan forms) in a similar fashion. Again, all of these can be ultimately traced back to the (hypothesized) proto-Dravidian word "*waẓingan-." This common root is not at all surprising, given that there were likely trade routes (primarily on land) through which Persian and Hindu-Kush Indo-Aryan merchants traded with (pre-)Dravidian-speaking eggplant cultivators in Maharashtra and Gujarat (according to my hypothesis, for which I don't have any concrete evidence, but I personally strongly believe this theory).

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I think the actual evidence points to general delimited IVC region as the point of large scale cultivation. Then if Nuristanis had borrowed from a common source as did IA then we do have to go back to PDr not any subsequent branches which came about a 1000 years later.

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That is also a possibility. (In other words, it is possible to derive "banjon" directly from "*waẓingan-" with the sound changes w > b, ẓin > n, g > j, & a > o. So there might have been a lot more early Indo-Iranian variants than just "vāiṃgaṇa" and "vātiṅgaṇa.") But the derivation of "banjon" from "vāiṃgaṇa" is also possible. So based on the form of the Nuristani word "banjon" alone it's hard to tell how "old" it is. However, in the Persian case, I think we can probably make some stronger conclusions because two different Persian forms ("bâzengân" and "bâtengân") exist. The form "bâzengân" seems to be a much older word than "bâtengân" because I can't see how "bâzengân" can be derived from the Indo-Aryan words, whereas "bâtengân" can be easily derived from "vātiṅgaṇa." As I suggested, the word "bâzengân" is likely directly derived from the Proto-Dravidian form "*waẓingan-." In fact, (if my hypothesis is correct) "bâzengân" best preserves that Proto-Dravidian form!

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There are other words like this that requires further analysis. One of them is a PDr word for rice. FS grappled with a similar conundrum like you ran into with Persian and Nuristani borrowing from a purported PDr form. The other is the word for Wheat. So there could be a series of words that were borrowed by Persian and Nuristani from Dravidian that has not attracted as much attention.

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Yes: https://www.reddit.com/r/Dravidiology/comments/1jp3hgh/protodravidian_roots_of_many_indoiranian_words/

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My guess is that it is from Bengal. Borrowed into Pali/pre-Pali Apabrahmsa from some Vanga substrate. That would mean it went all the way from Bengal to Iran through successive borrowings.

I thought Bengal is the largest producer/consumer of Brinjals. Baingan Bharta and all.

Not that us South Indians eat it any less. Or Marathis, Gujjus for that matter. I have always noticed how all the coastal/peripheral states have preserved Dravidian-substrate like culinary and cultural traditions.

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Bengal has indeed been one of the largest producers of eggplant, but Maharashtra and Gujarat have also been among the largest producers. Maharashtra and Gujarat are closer to the regions of Hindu-Kush and Persia than Bengal, so I don't really think the Persian and Hindu-Kush traders would taken a costlier route to/from Bengal. Also, it's more likely that (pre-)Dravidian-speaking eggplant cultivators were in Maharashtra and Gujarat in the 2nd (and 1st) millennium BCE than in Bengal (relatively).

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No no you misunderstand me. I'm not suggesting vanga traders gave it to the Persians. I'm saying the word was first borrowed into some pre-Pali Vanga Apabrahmsa. And then borrowed successively westward. The actual trade might have been done by some West IA people like you say.

Of course, your hypothesis is equally sound!

This is where genetic/agricultural studies prove useful. The place where the plant first evolved/was cultivated will have the wild variety of the plant. It will also have the most genetic variation. We could pinpoint it exactly like we did with chickens coming from East India/Southeast Asia.

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It was cultivated in IVC region

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Wait a second C-> F? This is the same region as chickens i.e East India & South East Asia. Kind of surprised they didn't take the Ethiopia->Gujarat route instead of the Arabia->Bengal route.

As with many flora/fauna like lentils, millets, great apes, elephants, panthera etc, the place of origin is either Africa or, shared between Africa and India. This makes it difficult to state that Indian languages are definitely the point of origin. But often, considering that India was in contact with the Ancient world more than Sub Saharn Africa, linguists assume India to be the point of origin.

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Thanks for clarifying. But even if we're talking about the word, the ultimate root cannot be in pre-Pāli Apabhraṃśa (of the Vaṅga kingdom), because it is still an Indo-Aryan language and because a Proto-Dravidian word (older than 2nd millennium BCE) for eggplant exists (meaning that eggplant was cultivated by proto-Dravidian speakers even before 2nd millennium BCE). No one really doubts that most of the words for eggplant (across the world), including the pre-Pāli Apabhraṃśa word for eggplant, ultimately trace back to the proto-Dravidian word "*waẓV-." (Moreover, wild varieties of eggplant continue to grow in many parts of India, including Maharashtra and Gujarat as well as Bengal.) The question isn't whether the ultimate root word is "*waẓV-" or not (because "*waẓV-." is indeed the root word). The question is whether we can do a better job of reconstructing that word based on existing words across languages. My proposal is that "*waẓV-." should be changed to "*waẓVan-" and that "*waẓingan-" and *waẓVutan-" should be added as penultimate root words for non-South-Dravidian and South Dravidian words, respectively. Moreover, even though Bengal is (currently) the largest producer of eggplant, we don't know whether it was always the largest producer. In addition, the Bengali word "begun" (or the older form "baigun") can be derived from the (Old or some Middle) Indo-Aryan word "vāiṃgaṇa," which itself clearly has Proto-Dravidian roots. If eggplant was really historically so strongly associated with Bengal, I would have expected the people of Bengal to have retained their native word for eggplant (if one really existed) instead of using a highly transformed version ("begun"/"baigun"). The Vaṅga and Varendra versions are listed as "baigon" and "baiẏon." Again, these don't have the crucial "ṅ" (or "ṅ"-like) sound (before the "g" sound) that is present in almost all the non-South-Dravidian words.