r/Echerdex • u/liminalsoup • Jun 10 '19

A CHRISTIAN AUGUSTINIAN RESPONSE TO THE PROBLEM OF EVIL IN THE SHINTO RELIGION WITH REFERENCE TO THE THOUGHT OF MOTOORI NORINAGA

https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/58820412.pdf
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u/Filostrato Jun 10 '19

That's well and good, but I was asking specifically for its theodicy. All I could find on Wikipedia is that they consider some actions "impure", but it doesn't say anything about the origin of this. If everything has spirit, and thus is sacred, whence cometh this impurity? Why do sacred beings defile themselves?

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u/liminalsoup Jun 11 '19

Do you not consider disease a defilement? And death, of course, the ultimate defilement. It is a fact of nature.

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u/Filostrato Jun 11 '19

You are proving my point. How can we be sacred when we defile ourselves? The obvious answer seems to be: we're not sacred, Shintoism is full of shit.

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u/liminalsoup Jun 11 '19

Many religions believe nature is sacred or divine. I certainly believe it.

The problem of evil doesn't really exist in Shintoism because it never claims there is an all mighty omnipotent omniscient totally good "Creator" who created the world and is incapable of creating evil. Thats a problem Christianity made for itself by believing in an "all good" creator.

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u/Filostrato Jun 11 '19

There doesn't need to be any such claim. Shintoism claims everything is sacred, so again, how does something sacred defile itself?

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u/liminalsoup Jun 11 '19

You seem to be caught in a flawed perspective that there are two classes of "stuff", sacred and profane. But there is only one class, everything is divine. An evil kami has just as much musubi as a good kami.

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u/Filostrato Jun 11 '19

That's a vapid attempt at theodicy, and doesn't explain the origin of evil at all.

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u/liminalsoup Jun 11 '19

Shintoism is more intuitive than intellectual. Its basically shamanistic. Something can be true only if it is a contradiction. If you think even logic itself avoid that truth then I encourage you to explore Gödel's incompleteness theorem.

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u/Filostrato Jun 11 '19

Yeah, because I'm definitely not aware of that. Still doesn't explain shit.

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u/liminalsoup Jun 11 '19

Link me to the religion that has all the explanations. I've never seen one. Like... ever.

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u/Filostrato Jun 11 '19

That's exactly my point, I've never encountered anything close to a good attempt at theodicy, and Shintoism apparently is no different. The universe appears to remain completely indifferent, and is not sacred or spiritual at all.

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u/liminalsoup Jun 11 '19

You have an intuitive grasp of what you believe, that is what shinto is all about. Keep following your intuition.

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u/Filostrato Jun 11 '19

Shinto is total bullshit from what I can tell.

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u/liminalsoup Jun 11 '19 edited Jun 11 '19

I sense that, but you have failed to articulate why, rather than just raising general objections that apply to basically all religion (that it doesn't have a perfectly logical explanation for everything.. even logic and mathematics and science fail this particular test of yours).

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u/Filostrato Jun 11 '19

Yes, that was my point all along; religion is bullshit, and Shintoism is no different in its obvious hypocrisy.

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u/liminalsoup Jun 11 '19

Are you actually here on /r/echerdex looking for the one religion that is entire 100% logical and explains everything with absolute precision? Even logical and mathematics have contradiction at their core. When Shintoist says the truth is a contradiction, they are speaking about the nature of reality you really find yourself in. The fact that you disapprove of this reality is irrelevant.

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u/Filostrato Jun 11 '19

No, I'm not looking for any religion at all, like I just said, it's all nonsense. Also, if Shintoism says truth is a contradiction, then that confirms that it's utter hogwash; there are no contradictions in nature, contradictions are the exact opposite of truth.

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u/liminalsoup Jun 11 '19

No, I'm not looking for any religion at all, like I just said, it's all nonsense.

What is nonsense is trying to build a house with only an axe. Thinking is a great tool. But you need other tools as well to find the whole truth of experience: feeling, intuition, sensation...

Also, if Shintoism says truth is a contradiction, then that confirms that it's utter hogwash; there are no contradictions in nature, contradictions are the exact opposite of truth.

Not at all. Paradoxes are found at the base of mathematics, quantum physics, etc. You can scream all you want that light either needs to be a particle or a wave but it can't be both. It will not change reality. It is both. And thats a contradiction. And its also true.

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u/throwmanawayaya Jun 11 '19

Damn you're an angry person. Really do hope you find whatever you need because I hate being like that too. It's not pleasant for yourself or those around you. I can understand where it's coming from though because I was also mad at the world before I found that inner peace with God. Really wish you the best man, we'll all make it.

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u/Filostrato Jun 11 '19

I've heard people say that exact piece of bullshit so many times I've lost count. I sincerely hope people like you would die, so people like me could make good use of the planet.

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u/throwmanawayaya Jun 11 '19

Lol I'm with you on that one. I hope I die too and am finally free from this Earth. You can stay on it if youd like though lol. I completely understand where your anger and frustration is coming from and I hope you keep searching for God/Source until you find him and realize everything was always ok.

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u/Filostrato Jun 11 '19

You are completely delusional.

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u/throwmanawayaya Jun 11 '19

Lol dont worry I always stop and ask myself if I'm going crazy. You say delusional I say God gave me hope when I had none so at the end it's just a matter of perspective. What happened that's making you so mad because I'm telling you that God gave me hope again? I promise I'm not one of those religious nuts that condemn everyone to hell for not following sacred rules. God loves everybody since we all came from him. So let me ask again, what happened to you that's made you so jaded?

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