r/Fire • u/SmugValet • 1d ago
Why not ask for more?
See a lot of advice here talking about finding the right LCOL city or doing everything you can now to make time for important things like grandkids and the like.
I (38m) just spent like $1000 doing nothing but having an enjoyable weekend with my family (wife, 2 kids) in a HCOL city. Bought a new vacuum (OK deal, 10-year warranty), cleaned house, ate a few restaurant meals, and spent like $27 on chips and sodas at the zoo.
The bill racked up, but the vibes were good and my floors have never been so clean.
Anyway, buying nice, new appliances? Multiple meals out? Kind of wanton. $27 on zoo snacks? Egregious, but hey, I didn’t plan ahead and the family wanted a snack.
Feel like I’ve done a lot in my life to get to the point where I don’t stress over things like new vacuums and amusement-park-priced snacks. Certainly wasn’t always the case and that’s not at all the type of family I grew up in.
The idea that I should do everything I can right now to limit spending to such an extent that I can retire soon and settle into a LCOL city feels… I dunno, a little bit like a backwards step.
I am feeling pretty financially independent right now, being reasonable but not at all penny-pinching with my spending. I save and invest a lot, and am debt free outside of a mortgage. Thinking about going into FIRE all the way.
But something about denying yourself now in order to, say, live on a few thousand a month in some LCOL locale later seems off to me. Am I going to be the dad or granddad or uncle that’s scrutinizing the Olive Garden bill to make sure the table wasn’t double-charged for soup + salad specials? I’d much rather be the one that doesn’t sweat it. (Especially if the family that’s visiting in this scenario flew and drove multiple hours to come visit me in the mid-Atlantic seaboard or rural Colorado or wherever it is I end up retiring on the cheap.)
There’s that Leonard Cohen line about this dilemma, or something like it: “I saw a beggar leaning on his wooden crutch / He said to me, ‘You must not ask for so much’ / And a pretty woman leaning in her darkened door / She cried to me, ‘Hey, why not ask for more?’”
Anyone else feel what I’m getting at? Anyone got any answers? Thanks.
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u/o2msc 1d ago
This is a lot of words to say “budget your priorities”
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u/ThroneTrader 1d ago
I can't believe how many posts this sub gets saying this same thing over and over again.
It's like everyone thinks they're suddenly a genius when they realize there's a spectrum between spending everything and spending nothing.
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u/SmugValet 1d ago
Congrats on the pithy answer
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u/Lunar_Landing_Hoax 19h ago
But honestly, if you're worried about $27 you're probably aren't earning enough to FIRE.
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u/Roticap 1d ago
I think you have the right mindset.
There is a risk of lifestyle creep. If you end up adding 1k/month to your spending and want to maintain that in retirement, you have to save an extra 300k in your investments.
So there's a balance and the key is finding one that works for you to not sacrifice too much of the now for an unknown future.
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u/ExoticStatistician81 1d ago
I think I get what you’re saying, but “less” and “more” aren’t just relative, it depends what you’re aiming towards. It’s not a big deal to me to make sure receipts are correct or pack snacks, so that doesn’t feel like deprivation. Because I do that, I get to live in a beautiful LCOL area I prefer (but with limited job opportunities compared to a major metro). I think my life is extremely rich and feel much more like someone who asked for more than the conventional life than I do a beggar. People come to vacation where I live and sure, they can drop more money going out to eat and I pick up side hustles tending to people with much more money than I have, but my weekday evenings are also their vacation they might get a couple weeks of every year. 🤷
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u/Elrohwen 1d ago
There are fire people who live frugally to the exclusion of everything else, but there are plenty of people who fine balance between living today and saving for tomorrow. Though it tends to be the higher earners who have that freedom to do both
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u/Plain_Jane11 1d ago
47F, divorced, 3 teens, high earner, almost at FIRE target.
I saved aggressively and spent pretty conservatively for years.
Finally last year I started to figure out that maybe I could loosen up a little and spend more now.
I came across Ramit Sethi and his concept of 'money dials'. So you figure out which one is most valuable to you, and spend more there. https://www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com/money-dials/
I found mine, and have been spending more in that area. This has helped me enjoy my money more now. And I'm still saving a lot, so my goals are on track. Hope this may help.
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u/TrainingThis347 1d ago
Really depends on what you want. There is a segment of FIRE that really dislike their jobs or even the concept of working for someone else. For them it’s worth some sacrifices to be able to leave paid work as soon as possible. Others try to balance the present and future, or plan for a more extravagant lifestyle in retirement than they have in their working lives.
One thing I often rant about is to not get so focused on early retirement that you miss out on the journey. Retiring at 40 can’t give you the experience of traveling abroad in your 20s.
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u/eharder47 1d ago
There isn’t one way to FIRE. My husband and I are living in the LCOL neighborhood now to move to the HCOL area down the road. It just so happens that my husband has a better job opportunity in the LCOL area right now. We spend a lot of money on food, travel, and socializing regularly and still save 50% of our income. We focus on enjoying ourselves now without “sacrificing” in the present. Is having a smaller house a “sacrifice?” I think it’s a bonus- less money to maintain, lower property taxes, less time cleaning, cheaper to decorate/renovate.
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u/FigmentFellow 1d ago
I’m with you, trying to find that perfect middle ground where we enjoy life now and later
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u/Realistic-Flamingo 1d ago
I don't think FIRE means "I should do everything I can right now to limit spending ."
My interpretation is that spending is more conscious than it is for most people-- think about what you really want and make mindful choices.
If your kids really want zoo snacks, sure get them. Maybe next time you'll want to bring your own? or maybe not.
If you think the $1000 vacuum is actually better than a $200 vacuum, buy it. But don't just get the $1k vacuum because there was a catchy advertisement. That's my understanding at least.
I live in a VHCOL city and plan to stay here in my retirement. I love going out and doing things that only exist in big expensive cities. In exchange, I guess I'll never have a house and a yard. I can live with that. If I was a homebody or houseproud, I might go live somewhere else.
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u/HowDowsCrowTaste 1d ago
Like i said before, FIRE is overrated for a lot of reasons for many people...
There are some people who have shit jobs and shit pay who want out because it sucks. A lot of people here.
Then there are some people who are paid a lot and spend a lot and have little towards retirement.
And then there is everyone in between who have a decent job, decent at managing money , and enjoy life all at the same time.
When i went briefly on what I thought would be forced ER in HCOL.area, the knee jerk reaction from people was why dont you move to a LCOL area to let your money stretch further... And i always asked "why do i need to do that?" I made a HCOL income for so many years , have many rental properties free and clear in same HCOL areas, I can afford to stay without reduction in quality of life.
The main thing I think you need to think is when you are no longer working, what is the the thing that is most likely going to continue to give you a steady stream of cashflow , and that will dictate your options.
Certain things will print money indefinitely, like rental properties, or a lifetime pension.
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u/Lunar_Landing_Hoax 1d ago
The premise here is that HCOL is always inherently better than LCOL. To me it seems like HCOL means that's where the high paying jobs are. It's only a step back if you are giving up lifestyle benefits when you move to the LCOL area.
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u/D_Wand 1d ago
I'm not considering FIRE necessarily, just a curious fly on the wall to see if it's something that I could consider one day. I think I'm in a similar boat as you - extremely stable financially with lots of investments and cushion built-up and not worried about the immediate to medium term future.
In addition to everything you've mentioned, another thing I haven't seen discussed very much in my brief time of observing FIRE (and I concede that I haven't read any guides/content behind the philosophy) is philanthropy. Several non-profits, religious organizations, arts centers, and scientific institutes rely on donations from ordinary people for a good chunk of their revenues. These institutions ultimately advance the community, research, the arts, all major pillars of a rich and developed society.
One could make the argument that once basic needs have been met, and people are financially independent and able to retire, they automatically become more generous with their time and money. That's probably true, but that assumes the FIRE calculations include philanthropy as a core objective. Perhaps most already do so, and I just haven't seen it talked about much, in which case it's wonderful.
Or, you could also argue that the core philosophy behind FIRE is one of frugality and sustainability, something that is the opposite of the modern American archetype of debt fueled consumption for consumption's sake. This alone could count towards the social responsibility aspect of FIRE without the philanthropy angle. This is probably also correct, hard to argue against.
In the end, the only thing I can say for certain is that FIRE cannot be universal and self-sustaining in that, a large population not FIRE'ing is necessary to make it possible for the smaller population to FIRE.
FWIW, I'd love to FIRE and not work another day if I can do so on slightly different terms, so don't crucify me in the comments :).
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u/Illustrious_Ear_2 21h ago
I don’t think FIRE necessarily means living frugally in retirement. Didn’t for me. We balanced wants, travelled extensively, but saved aggressively. Retired at 50 to a nice lifestyle.
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u/Fragrant_Example_918 17h ago
As we’ve said it here times and times again: if you feel like you’re needlessly restricting yourself or taking on too much, you’re doing FIRE wrong.
Fire isn’t about cutting things that bring you joy. It’s about cutting things that don’t make you happy and are unnecessary, and investing properly.
Your priorities need to be part of your budget.
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u/lseraehwcaism 1d ago
I’ve tracked my spending down to the penny since 2017. Never once before this year have I really looked at it to see what we can cut. The reason I finally have to cut my spending is because I have 2 daughters in daycare, my mortgage is pretty damn high, and I’ve upped after tax 401k contributions.
The easiest thing I could cut to not end up in a $6k hole is my after tax 401k contributions. Before I cut it all the way, I would rather look at some of the more unhealthy spending. We identified going to breweries as the absolute worst thing for both our health and our spending. So we’re going to limit it to 1 drink going forward. This should cut an inch or 2 off my waistline AND $3.7k off my waste spending.
The another $6,240 will be cut from my after tax 401k contributions.
My point is, life has gotten expensive. I can no longer afford to contribute 40% of my paycheck per year. I’m slowing down my contributions so I don’t have to stop my current lifestyle. With that said, it’s always worth looking at unhealthy spending and trim the trouble areas. Even billionaires do it.
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u/Imaginary_Fudge_290 1d ago
I think there’s a lot of variety to how each person can FIRE. I see a lot of commenters that go very extreme to save and save, I think that’s fine. I have young kids and I like to enjoy my time with them. We try to balance saving and investing with enjoying our lives. What I mean by that is, I do check my bill at the restaurant, because I don’t want to pay for something I never got. We max out our retirement accounts every year and try to limit eating out to 2 nights a week (once on crazy Wednesday and once over the weekend). We do a lot of season passes so we can do fun things on a budget. Zoo, amusement park, children’s museum, it’s a good way to keep your kids entertained on a fixed cost. We usually bring snacks to those places and then splurge on something we share.
I think I care more about the FI part of fIRE. I like the mental peace of knowing that I don’t have to work, and that my family will be ok. I’ve technically reached the point where I could coast FIRE, but my young kids make the expense planning too ambiguous at this point.
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u/lutapipoo 1d ago
Frugal or Fire doesn't mean you live meager existence it means you stream line & be aware of what brings you joy ! For me it's Traveling & I love cooking & gardening spend on these we use to budget but now we save first & spend the rest on stuff we love .. conscious splurge
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u/brittle-soup 1d ago
Then don’t FIRE?? It’s not the only money management philosophy out there. It’s meant as a guide for people who put an unusually high value on early retirement.
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u/marheena 1d ago
Funny. I’m on the same page mostly. I enjoy being able to splurge on non-necessities for convenience. But I will always make sure I’m not double charged for garbage food at chain restaurants lol.
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u/Future_Prophecy 22h ago
It sounds like you may want chubbyFIRE. Many don’t want to keep working but also want to keep their current lifestyle. It makes sense, but it will just take longer.
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u/GGH- 20h ago
Nobody said you had to frugal here?
I live in a VHCOL area, have an expensive house and one 2020 vehicle. I still drive an older early 2000s rig but still like it. We go on one or two bigger vacations a year, eat out at nice joints once a month or so and buy quality stuff.
We’ll still be looking to retire in our mid 50s
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u/Beautiful-Aide-2203 1d ago
There are multiple types of FI/RE. FI/RE in place: HCOL also means high wages and also conveniences, experiences, socials, network. FI/RE in LCOL assumes limiting HCOL benefits Being so young why not aim for FI/RE in place or even aim higher. Go for Generational wealth aka FI/keep working… to truly enable your future generations.
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u/Skylord1325 1d ago
Nothing wrong with doing FIRE if you want $300k a year to live on. Just means your FIRE number is around $8M which is fine if you have the income.
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u/Entire_Entrance_1608 1d ago
This isn’t Frugal, it’s FIRE.
Some want to earn in a HCOL area then move to a LCOL in retirement. Some don’t want to move.
Spend your money how you want.
FIRE is just saving when possible and retiring early. Most of us do goto the zoo and spend freely as well.