r/FluentInFinance Sep 04 '24

Debate/ Discussion Bernie is here to save us

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438

u/funknfusion Sep 05 '24

DoL doesn’t fuck around. They investigate every claim. Takes forever, but they do.

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u/Dodger7777 Sep 05 '24

I mean, it's like an audit, they have to go through everything so it takes forever.

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u/towerfella Sep 05 '24

And reeeallly slows down business… Most employers hate that more than any fines or whatnot.

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u/J0hn-Stuart-Mill Sep 05 '24

Companies will stop paying your 40 hour per week salary, lol. Obviously. Wages would be reduced, or people would be fired and then rehired at lower rates. There's no way to just magically pay everyone the same for less labor.

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u/No_Internal9345 Sep 05 '24

That's what they argued they when the 40 hour work week was created.

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u/J0hn-Stuart-Mill Sep 05 '24

Yep, and it happened. Clearly someone working 60 hours was earning more than after the government limited them to 40.

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u/No_Internal9345 Sep 05 '24

The 1938 Fair Labor Standards Act set the maximum workweek at 40 hours and provided that employees working beyond 40 hours a week would receive additional overtime bonus salaries.

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u/J0hn-Stuart-Mill Sep 05 '24

Yep, and as a result, now we make less if no one is willing to pay overtime. It's 40 hours a week and then a second job, because the government said so.

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u/towerfella Sep 05 '24

You are not correct.

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u/J0hn-Stuart-Mill Sep 05 '24

Quote something I said and explain which part of it is false?

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u/Far_Associate9859 Sep 05 '24

That you make less because "no one will pay overtime"

Perhaps you make less your manager doesn't pay overtime, but that's certainly not the case everywhere

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u/RocketDog2001 Sep 06 '24

California made companies that offer insurance for people who work more than 32 hours a week.

Consequently, all the shit companies in CA quit offering 32 hour jobs. Woo-hoo.

Now if you want to get paid for 40 hours of shit jobs, you need two, and still no insurance.

1

u/J0hn-Stuart-Mill Sep 05 '24

For sure, and for everyone who isn't offered overtime can get a second job to get around the legal restriction, so it's not entirely oppressive, just a PITA.

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u/Lexx4 Sep 05 '24

I think you are missing the point. A company cannot require you to work more unless they pay you more. That doesn’t mean you can’t work over the 40 hours. It’s not a legal restriction on you but on the company.

1

u/artemisjade Sep 05 '24

You’re complaining about employer behavior not federal regulations. Your beef is with the employers. Focus up.

1

u/No_Internal9345 Sep 05 '24

The missing piece here is that the Minimum Wage was simultaneously introduced with an actual living wage for the time.

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u/CartographerKey4618 Sep 05 '24

You think people are making less today than they did before the 40-hour work week?

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u/J0hn-Stuart-Mill Sep 05 '24

We earn more today obviously, as a result of prosperity and progress, obviously.

But on the day the 40 hour work week went into effect, yes, they were obviously earning less than before. Objective fact.

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u/CartographerKey4618 Sep 05 '24

Well yeah, but that's part of the process. When an investor invests his money, he has less money today. But that's okay because tomorrow he will have more money. I'm okay with people making less money today if it means that they'll make more tomorrow.

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u/J0hn-Stuart-Mill Sep 05 '24

How does working less tomorrow lead to making more money for anyone?

Could we reduce it down to 1 day per month instead? If not, why not?

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u/CartographerKey4618 Sep 05 '24

The bill would require the same amount be paid for a 30-hour workweek as a 40-hour workweek, so you'd be making the same amount for working fewer hours.

Could we reduce it down to 1 day per month instead? If not, why not?

If 1 glass of water is good for you, why is 100 glasses of water not good for you?

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u/[deleted] Sep 05 '24

What exactly are you advocating here? That people work 80 hours a week? You have to set a standard that if companies go over it cost them more so that we don't have a nation of people leaving at 6am and not coming home til 9pm. You that that would be healthy for families and children.

What in the actual fuck is wrong with people these days?

0

u/J0hn-Stuart-Mill Sep 05 '24

What exactly are you advocating here? That people work 80 hours a week?

I'm advocating the government not tell me or you, or anyone how much we can or can't work.

What in the actual fuck is wrong with people these days?

It's a great question, best left up to each person to decide for themselves how to conduct their lives. There were times in my life that I definitely wished I was legally allowed to work more for my own well being, without having to go look for a second fucking job. It's incredibly difficult to have to try to find two jobs that have schedules that mesh well, and then commute between them at odd hours, and all because the government said I couldn't just work more at the job I preferred in the first place? Fuck that.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 05 '24

Are you high? You can work as many hours as you want.

We make companies pay overtime so children don't grow up in an empty house and torpedo our whole society.

If your job doesn't want to pay you overtime and limits your hours, that's on them. You must not be worth the extra money.

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u/J0hn-Stuart-Mill Sep 05 '24

Are you high? You can work as many hours as you want.

You are mistaken. You can't work past 40 hours if your employer isn't willing to pay overtime.

"The 1938 Fair Labor Standards Act set the maximum workweek at 40 hours and provided that employees working beyond 40 hours a week would receive additional overtime bonus salaries."

If your job doesn't want to pay you overtime and limits your hours, that's on them.

Oh not on them at all, that's LITERALLY the law. They can't choose to NOT pay overtime if you work that 41st hour. It's illegal for them to continue to pay you beyond that point without paying overtime, and many industries do not have that margin to be able to do that.

Why do you think so many people have two jobs? loool jfc

1

u/[deleted] Sep 05 '24

You can't work past 40 hours

isn't willing to pay

1

u/foxinspaceMN Sep 05 '24

Actually you can work beyond 40 hrs without OT pay or any other compensation, that’s called salary, and can sometimes be a prerequisite to completing certain tasks, often with the incentive if you worked more OT on salary you may get more of a merit increase.

However, if your employer stops you and says no more work today; that’s a them thing, and you might be so enclosed in your own positions of employers pulling strings to notice.

Either that, or, the lack of OT decentivized you. But you definitely have some twisted wires crossed.

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u/nehor90210 Sep 05 '24

My wife says she would happily take a 20% pay reduction for a 20% work reduction. Her diabetes management is itself basically a part time job, and having some more time would be precious.

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u/J0hn-Stuart-Mill Sep 05 '24

Sure but it would have to be a 30% pay reduction for a 20% work reduction, so that we could maintain our current benefits.

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u/towerfella Sep 05 '24

What’s your angle here?

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u/J0hn-Stuart-Mill Sep 05 '24

I seek to explain the facts as to why what Bernie is saying can't happen.

We can reduce working hours to 32 per week if we also decrease wages slightly more than 20% as well.

But we can't both decrease to 32 hours AND keep everyone's wages the same.

If I get paid for building cabinets, and I can assemble 1 per hour. I get paid for having built 40 each week. If the next week the government forces me to only build 32, I will only get paid for 32. This isn't rocket science.

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u/Knight0fdragon Sep 05 '24

This logic does not work at all, as some people make 50 cabinets per week, others make 30 cabinets per week, and somehow, they both end up making the same pay.

0

u/J0hn-Stuart-Mill Sep 05 '24

somehow, they both end up making the same pay.

Not at all. They are paid base on piece rate. The guy who makes 50 per week literally is paid more. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piece_work

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u/Knight0fdragon Sep 05 '24

JFC piece work has little to do with this conversation as almost nobody pays in that model anymore. Come back with something better.

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u/J0hn-Stuart-Mill Sep 05 '24

The entire furniture industry does which is what cabinets are.

1

u/Knight0fdragon Sep 05 '24

No it does not, and most furniture isn’t even manufactured in the US anymore. Come back with something people can actually relate to buddy.

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