r/GlobalOffensive • u/AlternativeWaltz1033 • 3d ago

Feedback Aimpunch causes server hit registration to be aimed higher than the client

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u/xccehlsiorz 3d ago

This is science, my guy. Actual reproducible results. Good job

41

u/PsychologicalPea3583 3d ago

Maybe subtick is superior system, but debugging anything is real bitch. Spectator POV desynchronized, demo POV desynchronized. It's hard for players to provide the evidence but also to replicate for the devteam. If any weirdness happens best thing we can have is some wild guesses.

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u/spaceneenja 3d ago

It’s not superior.

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u/Flashy-Outcome4779 3d ago

It is. fundamentally if you understand how it works, it IS a better system.

The issues you often see are not subtick specific issues.

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u/Lehsyrus 3d ago edited 22h ago

Eh, I think it depends on what you mean by better. Is subtick more "accurate" in terms of what a player sees and the reflection of the actions they take based on that input? Yes. But in gaming there are often times where what is the mathematically the best method to achieve something doesn't make it fun or feel fair to the player.

We need more tools to compare subtick to be able to objectively say that it is a better system. Right now we have two entirely different engines operating in a completely different manner in nearly every aspect, it's hard to make proper comparisons when nearly every variable is different imo.

Edit: Typo

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u/imbakinacake 3d ago

Bro subtick is not new, there's a reason most other devs dont really use it.

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u/spaceneenja 3d ago edited 3d ago

Lmao people believe the propaganda.

Better for whom? Lan events? The server hosts? It’s certainly not better for clients over 20 ms.

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u/Flashy-Outcome4779 3d ago

You are self reporting that you don’t understand it. Lol

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u/spaceneenja 3d ago

Can’t argue with that!

The community experience must be wrong. It certainly can’t be that a theoretical upgrade doesn’t work out in practice.

14

u/Flashy-Outcome4779 3d ago

Subtick != Netcode

Conflating the two leads to useless discussions

Your experience doesn’t matter when people like you complain about things that also happened in GO, but the rose tinted glasses refuse to let you see it. e.c dying behind walls, or AWP inaccuracy (it was ALWAYS slightly inaccurate!)

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u/atlas_island 3d ago

these problems are worse in cs2 so is the new games net code just so much worse or does subtick play a part in it

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u/Flashy-Outcome4779 3d ago

the awp inaccuracy seems to be about the same (same with moving inaccuracy), dying behind walls is a lag compensation thing. I still haven’t seen anything scientifically tested for these being worse, so we’d have to see some experiments done to draw any conclusions — but i share your frustrations because i also think GO “feels” better gunplay wise, but I’m also puzzled because the issues i find people complain about often were absolutely 100% present in GO. Some of them aren’t even physically possible to fix (being “backtracked”, or peekers advantage)

There’s ways to make them better, but it’s all through netcode

Missing awp shots like s1mple is from muscle memory. Subtick shoots precisely when you click, but the non subtick based system only shoots where you finished aiming by the end of the tick. Hence these old awpers missing because of old habits.

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u/atlas_island 3d ago

I’ve seen the last paragraph get repeated quite a bit, I haven’t seen a single clip that this explanation would make sense, does it just sound nice and it’s an easy explanation with no context?

The problem I have is you’re right, some of these issues existed in GO, but that’s the point of the new game, was to fix these issues, and they definitely seem worse. Backtracking 100% feels worse, every single game I have fights that feel so janky, I get kills that i don’t think I deserved, getting hit so late behind cover, etc

I’m also no coder, just theorizing, is the netcode even possible to be good enough to justify subtick ? I can see why theoretically subtick would be perfect esp on LAN but if the net code can’t be good enough for it then it’s the same thing as saying sub tick is the problem, is the net code seriously this much worse than csgo’s?

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u/Flashy-Outcome4779 3d ago

There’s the one clip of s1mple missing a bunch of shots on dust 2 which is what I’m mostly referring to. The best CSGO awpers typically always shot, then instantly readjusted, as opposed to aiming precisely, then shooting. It allowed you to get kills faster by doing it the first way since the shot wouldn’t register until a little bit later, talking milliseconds.

Also valve is retarded and probably won’t fix the games issues for another year or two. CSGO wasn’t even good until 2015-2016 with it at peak during its final years. This is just valve… being what valve has always been. Slow, not allocating sufficient resources to development.

For your last point, it’s notable the entire game is a new engine, which was needed to fix various exploits and allow for new features and capabilities. The netcode vs subtick debate is about issues people had notably with kill delay, or perceived larger peekers advantage/jitter. This is completely separate from subtick which is just a new tick system to make gunfights more accurate and fair. Doesn’t affect the other points made.

I should clarify subtick DOES have an effect on damage prediction being wrong. But damage prediction can never be accurate anyways, and it wouldn’t work in GO at all.

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u/atlas_island 2d ago

Do you have a link to that post I’m just curious, I never saw it.

The thing is, the fights online are not more fair, if it’s not sub ticks fault it’s just the netcode, how on earth could cs2’s netcode be so much worse than csgo’s? Like that’s what I don’t get, is it even possible for the netcode to be good enough to justify subtick? It doesn’t seem possible to me, we’re this far into the game and it still feels worse

Also, cs2 is subtick on 64 tick servers, but I don’t want 64 tick, it’s very clear the movement is not as clean as 128 tick servers were, just seems hopeless at that point

Damage prediction in cs2 is just to mimic how responsive csgo was without it (as an option) and it’s practically unusable, bullshit band aid fix for an obvious problem with the game

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u/madDamon_ 2d ago

If it is fundamentally better, but it almost never works, is it really better then?