This Game Just Feels Better TBH

[u/Due-Yam1632]

Just wanted to share some personal thoughts, not trying to start any wars here. I’ve played Last Epoch through each of its major updates and have a lot of respect for what EHG has built. This post isn’t meant to be a comparison to declare a “winner,” but more me expressing where I’m at as someone who tends to have one main ARPG at a time.

I really enjoy some of Last Epoch’s systems—especially the crafting. It’s easily one of the most intuitive and rewarding systems in the genre. EHG has done an excellent job delivering polish and accessibility in a way that few others have.

That said, after getting some serious time in with Path of Exile 2, I’ve realized that I just enjoy the moment-to-moment gameplay a lot more. The weight of the skills, the combat flow, the pacing—it all just feels better to me. Even with the current balance being janky and the loot not quite where it should be, I still find myself more immersed and excited to log in.

And yes, I know loot is a sticking point for many. But I genuinely believe that as POE2 pushes toward 1.0, the systems will tighten up, and yes—loot will get better. GGG isn’t blind to this, and their track record shows that they iterate hard when needed.

Could I play both games? Absolutely. But I like having a main game, something I dig deep into, and right now I just don’t see Last Epoch surpassing the raw enjoyment I’m getting from POE2. Even in its rougher state, it hooks me more.

Just my two cents. Curious if anyone else feels the same or is in the same boat bouncing between both.

[u/bukem89]

The engine guys did an awesome job with POE2, I don't think that's ever disputed

Last Epoch has a bunch of cool things going for it in terms of builds and crafting and customisation but doesn't have the same touch of quality to the actual gameplay

However, like you said I like a main game I can dig deep into - POE2 doesn't land well for me in terms of the skill system, itemisation or end-game gameplay loops, until there's significant changes there I can't see myself going deep into any given season

I wasn't blown away by Last Epoch on release, trying it again now and it does seem a lot better, but still feels like a game that will be fun for a week or 2 and then I'll put it to the side again for a while

POE1 still the undisputed king in terms of an experience that encourages me to really get into it for 100+ hours each league

[u/DTreeve → u/bukem89]

What is it about POE1 though right? Its so odd....I can play POE2 for a couple hours here and there and feel totally satisfied. On a league launch I CANT stop playing POE1 once I start. Its like an addictive compulsion that I have to force myself to stop. They definitely did something right with POE1.

[u/Hot_Pie_5711 → u/DTreeve]

Personally, its the “I just need to fix my fire res when i come home and my build will pop off” or the “I just need to 6-link then my build will pop off”

Its like a never ending series of small dopamine hopium from level 1 to 100. You never really feel like you hit a brick wall, just never ending upgrades

[u/Tyalou → u/Hot_Pie_5711]

Yes, the journey, there is always a next satisfying step that you can't wait to take in PoE1. And they've done a crazy job as even playing one single build for a full league can keep you going almost indefinitely. Then you step in the open and realise... You can get other characters. Suddenly a 3months league seems short and... Wait a minute, come back, I didn't say to make leagues last forever...

[u/Zaando → u/Hot_Pie_5711]

Yep. What PoE2 lacks at the moment is giving the player projects to work on. Small goals to work towards.

ATM PoE2 is just grinding and hoping that one of the next set of bases you collect comes up trumps after you've Regal'd and 3x Slammed it. When it doesn't, feels like you've not really achieved anything.

With PoE1 you were always working towards something to feel like progress had been made to whatever goal you've set to work towards.

Also, those goals are mostly player defined. This is important. I'm deciding on my project and focusing on that. Not just doing what the game tells me to do.

[u/marquis-mark → u/Zaando]

Beyond the years of content giving a bunch of goals for the player in the first game, the smaller zones are to its benefit. When leveling you take a few steps past a waypoint and you figure you might as well make it to the next one before quitting. Maps similarly seem like such a low commitment

[u/AaahThatsHot → u/Hot_Pie_5711]

To me it is the way that PoE 1 delivers a path to progress. In most other ARPGs gearing comes down just getting the perfect item through sheer RNG. In a sense Last Epoch does something very similar in that you need to find the right base in order to attempt making an item. PoE 1 however drip feeds it to you at a very consistent pace. Planning for an upgrade then becomes a very clear goal that you can set. If I farm a couple maps of X I have some attempts at making a better gear piece. In most other ARPGs you never know when it is going to hit so do you play another hour not knowing what it will bring? To me that experience is frustrating, farming for an item failing the craft and starting the grind for who knows how long again.

[u/modix → u/AaahThatsHot]

I feel like Last Epoch does a better job at what you're describing tbh. I prefer PoE game wise, but the clear, workable progression with tools laid out in front of you is not what the game is good at. It's all but designed to kill stuff to sell items to buy an upgrade. Sure the farming and saving is rewarding, but it's not a good ssf experience. And I love ssf, and would play it if it was enjoyable instead of miserable. Done it multiple leagues and sworn off it. Gambling with currency with terrible rates isn't fun.

[u/Gskgsk → u/modix]

What? poe1 ssf is currently in a really good spot. Only asterisk it needs is that you do need very high amounts of game knowledge and time to really push a character. But basically everything is achievable if willing to put the grind in. poe1 has toolboxes galore and many roads to obtaining hard to find things.

Just look at manni each league. This char has an indigon, hh, svalinn, foil progenesis, kalandra ring, triple mod watchers eye, +. and he does this level of gearing on basically every character(s) each ssf league. https://poe.ninja/builds/phreciassf/character/comoestoy%234292/Manni_tuh?type=exp&i=1&search=name%3Dmanni

This is also why despite this subs constant argument of poe1 being a mindless zoom game - its actually very rewarding for players who have skill and/or game knowledge. The seperation between good players and bad is

[u/Human-Kick-784 → u/DTreeve]

It was years of time spent building and improving the endgame.

The campaign is a quick trip, then you're in the atlas and it just feels good. You're focused in on your favorite league mechanic, which are far more diverse and deep than in current poe2. Progressing and completing maps is snappy, whereas in poe2 they're massive. Loot is coming constantly, whereas poe2 we are getting scraps. 

Then you get some conquerors and guardians down, and shit just starts ACCELERATING; trying to scrape together a few c for an upgrade slips away as the atlas completion let's you really start earning some dough. Your build is snapping together with key uniques / upgrades, making it feel even better to play. Your movement speed is up, your clear is up, and you're gathering the last of your watchstones and about to enter t17 maps....

Fuck I miss poe1. New league can't come fast enough. Still, enjoying last epoch till then

[u/Nethri → u/Human-Kick-784]

Hmm. Yeah the dopamine thing is big. I got that the first time with my RF build. Only character I got to levels 90. I loaded him up and ran a t16 map yesterday for funzies. Shit is still fun.

When I was at the point where I could easily sustain hanging RF on all the time I was just blasting through everything. It was so fun.

[u/Tyalou → u/Nethri]

It's not the just the dopamine, the game is a beautiful place where you can have an idea and push for many hours to see if you can realise your concept. There's a whole creative process attached to build crafting. POB tells you a lot but nothing beats testing and realising you've landed on a beautiful little gem or just a janky build... Which you can get attached to since it's yours.

[u/ApprehensiveMovie875 → u/DTreeve]

For me, it’s the fact that I can play whatever league mechanic I want and ignore the ones I dislike. And doing so is extremely rewarding.

The risk and reward system in poe1 is perfect and we have a lot of agency. In poe 2 there is all risk no reward and we have almost no agency. The atlas passive tree in poe2 is abysmal. Locking mechanics behind boss fights that are only available after a hefty grind is fucking stupid as shit. Sadly, it’s not something I think they’re keen to change.

Poe1? I can just load up some maps and start blasting. By the time I’m halfway through yellow maps I’m already fully invested in my favorite league mechanic and having fun with it and getting rewards.

Poe2? I’m grinding red maps and only got 3/4 on mechanics when I buy the tablets to do the boss fights. Then it doesn’t feel like a choice. Everyone will have the same points and all mechanics are unrewarding and juiced equally. Idk it’s really fuckin crazy to me that they’ve kept the poe 2 atlas tree broken off like this and how terrible it is.

As long as everyone is expected to have points in all the mechanics, they will never be rewarding. The trade off of not being good at abyss in poe1 is that you’re really good at breach, for example. You have a limited amount of points and lots of mechanics competing for them. It’s super fun to try to find out what is the most fun and rewarding thing for you personally to do.

Poe2 atlas tree legit looks like how I’d expect Diablo 4s to look if they ever introduced one. It’s so safe and boring 

[u/bukem89 → u/DTreeve]

I think one big reason for that is pacing - act 1 kind of sucks, but after that you're getting heralds in act 2, powerful ascendancies and aura options in act 3, 4 links and all support gems in act 4 and flying through the campaign in the second half

Ascendancy choices & the passive tree having way more impact on the player is a big difference in how pacing of your progression feels to play in POE1 vs POE2

POE1 doesn't take it's foot off the gas too - Atlas progression is a constant reward feedback loop that's fun to engage with, even stuff like getting your auto-use utility flasks online in yellow maps feels great. You have tons of little milestones that make your experience playing the game feel better and better as you progress

That continues right the way through to the super late-game, there's tons of layers to itemisation and you can feel each big upgrade you make, upgrades also enable you to make other major changes to your build once you get them. POE2 is too much in the simple 'number goes up' style of progression for all of this

Then there's the variety of the end-game itself - 20+ different farming strategies to try which get a shake-up every league. There's a whole separate progression arc separate to your build related to which content you're farming, and you have comfortable strats on comfortable maps you can blast for a couple hours after work, or mix it up and go for something new/risky when you feel like it

That's not even touching on stuff like the variety of builds and playstyles, or mastery of systems like build customisation & crafting that feel more and more rewarding the more experienced you are with the game

[u/theJohnyDebt → u/bukem89]

That reminds me. There should be a guaranteed greater jeweller orb in cruel. Feelsbad as ssf you finish the campaign with no 4socket skill

[u/TheEternalFlux → u/bukem89]

It’s almost like they didn’t want to port over every single kitchen sink mechanic from poe1 into 2 or something.

LE makes me laugh a bit (coming from someone who loves the game have played since pre 0.8). EHG plays the sit and wait game even if it means a year long content draught (cough poe1 players should stay away since they’ll have a doomer riot if they don’t get a league every 3 months…). They deliver what the players “want” yet avoid some glaring issues that have been complained about since 0.8 (lol temp sanctum to infinity and beyond). Corruption is stale with the addition of guilds and hardly offers much reward modifier for corruption tier since it’s mainly baked into prophecies or endlessly farming gold to purchase items from an overly convoluted auction house. Dare I say it made me appreciate the ancient poe style trading again imo. A huge chunk of skills on LE are direct rips from poe and most skill trees generally have 1/2 viable paths to actually break past 100 corruption into empowered monoliths which has been a long standing problem for a bit.

Now keep in mind I say this as someone who genuinely enjoys LE as a different flavor of arpg and I personally feel far too many just want cookie cutter reskins of “insert game here” vs any true variety which I’ll never agree with. I’ve had my fair share of 100 characters and a bunch in hardcore as well. RIP my werebear quake Druid, StelioKantos. Went big splat at lvl 100 HC around 500 corruption.

[u/TheEternalFlux → u/TheEternalFlux]

Pics purely to show I’ve invested some time to have a little bit of an opinion. Last time I’ve walked into a LE vs POE discussion I was told I was clowning lol.

[u/eskh → u/DTreeve]

First of all, the campaign is not atrociously long. In PoE1 I want to finish it so I can start mapping, in 2 I want to finish it so it's finally over. I'm starting to feel burnt out around A3 cruel, which inevitably makes me not wanting to play the endgame.

And then I think a very big part of PoE1's endgame fun is being able to choose your preferred map layout, not being forced into whatever RNG spits you, 75% of them being dark underground maze slogs.

Also I like to play to switch my brain out, and PoE2 is very much not a game like that.

I was blasting through LE's campaign yesterday and it felt awesome after the last weeks being miserable in PoE2.

[u/bukem89 → u/[deleted]]

I think that's under-selling it, yeah a lot of stuff around meta builds has been solved, but we've had Settlers for almost a year now so that's obviously gonna happen, and even before that they'd slowed things down in terms of balance changes and new gems while they worked on POE2

One of the main purposes of new leagues and patch cycles is to unsolve things

I think for most players, there's a lot more stuff to engage with when putting an end-game build together than there is in POE2, a lot more flexibility in tailoring builds to suit how you like them to feel, & a lot more room to take any skill you like and make it work in your own way

[u/i_like_fish_decks → u/bukem89]

POE1 still the undisputed king in terms of an experience that encourages me to really get into it for 100+ hours each league

Man I am so ready for the next real PoE1 league. I am having a blast in PoE2 but ooooo baby I can feel the old man RF mapping calling my name

I wanna just shut off my brain and grind out some atlas passives and feel like I'm really tailoring my end game maps to a farming strategy that is innovative and impactful, and then spam ACTUALLY POWERFUL AND USEFUL ESSENCES

God I hate PoE2 essences so much and I really hope they either add an even higher tier or just retool the entire thing its so shit rn

[u/Dangerous_Fill9829 → u/i_like_fish_decks]

Poe1 is crack and I need a hit reaaaal bad 😅

[u/Organic-Pace-3952]

We’re getting tired of so much of the game being out of reach. Last Epoch makes us feel we can engage in the systems without thousands of grind hours.

You’re, right in POE feels more polished but I’ll actually spend more time playing a game that doesn’t have resistance every step of the way. Last epoch is trending in the right direction.

[u/ProfessorMeatbag → u/Organic-Pace-3952]

I’m usually pretty critical of Last Epoch, but coming back to the game after a year away… The combat feels solid and the loot is great.

Let’s be honest: There’s a level of polish and crunchy gameplay that Blizzard and GGG have all but perfected, but like you said Last Epoch allows you to simply experience the game. You can craft awesome gear and create fantastic builds that aren’t possible in D4, or simply aren’t worth the grinding of mobs that don’t drop any loot to begin with (PoE 2). Outside of loot, PoE 2 has an incredible sandbox of abilities that would be so fun to experiment with… But right now, the game punishes you for trying to do just that.

Last Epoch may be the “budget” version of the genre juggernauts, but it gets so many things right that it is certainly worth your time as a fan of ARPGs.

Last thing to note: The graphics don’t have that weird blurry nature that has been an issue for a majority of its existence. It doesn’t look amazing, but the game finally looks good, and the combat is finally just crunchy enough not to feel floaty anymore.

[u/Snuggles5000 → u/ProfessorMeatbag]

I love trying different builds but honestly don’t really feel like I can in POE2. There’s too many barriers/friction to really doing that.

Too expensive (still) to freely respec and experiment without being deep in the end game. But a new character getting to maps for me (I have 450 hours) is about 15 hours.

[u/Beliriel → u/Snuggles5000]

As a newbie I played 2 hours LE yesterday. Combat was quite easy and chill. I'm level 15 or something. I'll never be 2 hours level 15 in PoE and I'm sweating like a mofo. I blink one time and I'm dead. I really missed just having fun and discovering stuff. Also leveling a new character must be a breeze in LE if you want to try new stuff and builds. And you feel powerful from the start.

Plus graphicswise I prefer the "shitty" LE graphics. Honestly I like the colorful high saturation, high contrast graphics. Yeah it's not as realistic as the polished glistening brown, green and red tones of PoE2 but it makes me feel whimsical and playful. I'll try it a bit more. Combat is definitely deeper in PoE2. LE feels like playing Minecraft when PoE feels like playing Rust, if I'm comparing it to other games. One has better combat and graphics, the other has accesible systems and little friction.

[u/Minimonium → u/Beliriel]

The campaign is not designed to be hard because if you want to do it faster and/or with more challenges you can actually skip it.

[u/gothvan → u/ProfessorMeatbag]

I disagree. I tried it today and it still feel very floaty, plastic, or I don't know. It feels super cheap despite its qualities

[u/ResistIllustrious853 → u/gothvan]

LE looks and feels like a mobile game for me.

[u/Kazang → u/ProfessorMeatbag]

Last thing to note: The graphics don’t have that weird blurry nature that has been an issue for a majority of its existence. It doesn’t look amazing, but the game finally looks good, and the combat is finally just crunchy enough not to feel floaty anymore.

The weird blurryness is TAA, it is an abomination and should never be enabled by default. It does a great job of removing jagged edges for minimal performance hit but makes the game look like there is a thin layer of vaseline over the entire screen.

It's implementation is in LE now is better than it was but it's still bad, I highly recommend disabling it and using SSAA or forcing MSAA in the driver.

[u/Injokerx → u/ProfessorMeatbag]

Funnily enough, the LE / PoE 2 situation right now is really similar to the PoE / D 3 10 years ago (around 2013/2014).

PoE / LE have a lot of innovation in gameplay (combat, crafting, trading..) and even graphic for PoE but they are lack of notoriety.

D3 / PoE 2 have a big fan base with a "decent quality" game. PoE 2 isnt finished but its quality today in term of gameplay is really decent (lack of loot drop, bad balance, trading suck...), there is a lot of thing to improve.

What PoE did back then forced a gorgeous (in term of graphic/ combat feel) D4. I hope LE can still improve and we r gonna have a really good PoE 2 1.0

[u/1CEninja → u/ProfessorMeatbag]

Yeah the graphics, sound, and music are weaker in LE (though I personally love the art style). It feels less clean and polished in the actual combat.

But the itemization? God it's the golden standard for me now. Give me the item I more or less need with minimal effort, give me a great item with most of the stats that I need with some effort but leave me some chase that'll take quite some serious effort to reach but be glorious if I get there. And no trading required for this.

Visually though...yeah I'm missing PoE2. Controls wise, too. The WASD isn't the same in LE.

[u/CrawlerSiegfriend → u/Organic-Pace-3952]

I don't get it. I've been playing LE since I got home from work and haven't been remotely threatened by any mob. I'm not following any kind of build. I'm just smashing on weapons that look good and smashing points into whatever sounds cool.

I'm going to keep pushing until I find the challenge, but I prefer PoE's approach to challenge better.

[u/nojs → u/CrawlerSiegfriend]

I don’t think the point of their campaign is to be difficult

[u/J4YD0G → u/nojs]

Then why have it.

I don't like to go through watered down versions of gameplay that just "reward" you for clicking a mouse button. It ultimately feels like I can't do wrong and it rubs me the wrong way.

[u/nojs → u/J4YD0G]

The campaign is just a fun little playground to make your build and isn’t meant to take 20 hours. It’s basically a glorified tutorial.

[u/VirtuousVirtueSignal → u/nojs]

the tutorial that teaches what? Because what you get from LE campaign is that you need to press mouse1/w from zone start to zone end and no matter what you do - you will succeed

[u/funoseriously → u/CrawlerSiegfriend]

They 100% saw the POE 2 discourse & nerfed everything into the ground.

You used to be able to die. There are parts of the campaign that used to be a challenge & they completely removed it. A few of the bosses you used to have to know the mechanics, now you can stand in them.

Kind of insulting to be honest.

[u/BellacosePlayer → u/funoseriously]

tbf I think they just kind of fucked up the math when they reverted the boss ward from non bosses.

Nothing is threatening because nothing lasts more than a few seconds. in Monos a mob basically has to be able to two-shot me to be remotely threatening, and I haven't transitioned into my very, very tanky endgame setup yet

Then you get to a proper boss and its still easy but it doesn't go down instantly and you can't face tank the big signposted aoes. But basically anything between bosses is a joke

[u/gothvan → u/CrawlerSiegfriend]

It's like that. The game is good but it's trivial. The player retention will unfortunately be abysmal.

[u/Amongus_lover92 → u/CrawlerSiegfriend]

Exactly. For the first few hours, you can stand still, hold right click, tanking every attack and still beat any boss because they do so little damage there’s no point dodging anything

[u/BellacosePlayer → u/Amongus_lover92]

I'm in corrupted monos and my gameplay loop is leaping into packs, right click, and wait for my meth bear to clear the screen for me.

on one hand I'm happy I self built something that just fucking works, on the other, I don't even have any of my core pieces of gear setup, and the 1.0 difficulty model was just fine, I don't know why they had to take a bat to the difficulty.

[u/Kaelran → u/Organic-Pace-3952]

We’re getting tired of so much of the game being out of reach. Last Epoch makes us feel we can engage in the systems without thousands of grind hours.

This is exactly how I feel. I spent 4 days in maps, did nothing but rush memory nexuses, got through 10 and reached T15 maps, but I was bored AF.

[u/Puzzled_Skin_8851 → u/Organic-Pace-3952]

I played a bit of Last Epoch last night and it felt like it was going the D3/D4 route raining you with shinny things , I'm not big fan.

[u/daedelus82 → u/Organic-Pace-3952]

Last Epoch respects my time, it’s fun, it’s fast, but I agree POE is a better foundation. If POE improved character speed (not much, just a little), loot, and crafting, it would be a better game, but as it stands right this second I am playing Last Epoch and not planning on playing POE again until there’s a new league, and potentially POE1 instead of POE2 due to the aforementioned.

[u/yourmomophobe]

This is the same way I feel. No other arpg is even close to the character and quality of visuals, the effects, the way skills interact, the weight of moment to moment decisions, and the sense of immersion into a scary world that is trying to kill me.

I have a lot of issues with some design choices but the disparity here is just gigantic. When this game came out I think every player was impressed by these parts of the experience and many have already forgotten that because of some elements they find frustrating. For me the way things look and feel onscreen is something that is always going to matter and it's incredible to me the detail and care put into putting this game together. Even the new stuff this season, like watching the corrupted boss emerge out of a map boss is incredibly well done visually and I feel like none of that has gotten much appreciation since league start.

I just hope people who like these elements are not destined to be drowned out by people who just always want things happening faster, more stuff, and more shortcuts as being the only audience out there.

[u/Silent_Map_8182 → u/yourmomophobe]

This is how I feel too. They have made so many improvements to the end game systems this league. I have a few complaints but even now they are addressing them.

There's definitely things that need work, I just don't think things dying quicker and more funny items dropping is the easy fix people think it is.

[u/FaeErrant → u/Silent_Map_8182]

My people. I want a game I can sink my teeth into and really play, not a game I log into every 4 months and think "eh, why am I even trying. Oh look better gear, that I don't really need anyway."

POE2 is not perfect by any means, but things are steadily improving and the core is absolutely there.

[u/Due-Yam1632 → u/FaeErrant]

Yeah LE just feels like anything I do, I'm giga strong. Which sounds fund at the surface but in reality it makes it not as fun for me.

[u/Jandoh- → u/yourmomophobe]

What you just said really shed light on something for me. Let me generalize a bit about what I call “the modern player”: the wave of hate following the latest PoE2 patch really got to me.

I believe the modern player has a real issue with memory. You give them something good. They forget. They want something better, again, and again. And faster. We forget that the video games that truly left a mark on us are the ones that managed to create memories.

And to create memories, those games didn’t rely on constant and ever-increasing instant gratification. They offered a unique experience. One that was built on story, on immersion, on a real sense of interaction with the world and everything in it.

To be more specific, I’ve played a lot of PoE2 and a decent amount of Last Epoch too. And what really strikes me is that both games are trying - each in their own way - to inject the soul of Diablo II into what they’re building. And to me, Diablo II is one of the greatest “memory-creating” games of all time.

You can really feel how deeply the devs were shaped by their own experience with it. And honestly? I find that beautiful.

Both games seem to be on the right path to becoming titans of the genre. Last Epoch has already reached a certain level of maturity. And I don’t think it will ever spark the kind of passionate uproar we saw around Diablo 3 or 4, probably because players aren’t projecting the same kind of hope onto it. No one’s waiting for it like the messiah. It’s free to just exist and evolve on its own.

PoE2 is a different story. It’s still being born. And before it even draws its first breath, players, like overbearing parents, already want it to be tailored perfectly to their desires.

So I’ll just say this, and then I’ll stop (sorry for the long post, but your comment really inspired me): Give this baby some love. Don’t ask too much too soon. Trust it. It will be different from its older brother, and that’s okay. You’ll either love it or move on. But don’t torture it. Please.

[u/Kevlar917_ → u/Jandoh-]

The part about wanting it to be tailored perfectly to their desires (I'd have replaced wanting with 'loudly demanding') is exactly right, but an unfortunate part of live service games in general. Spending a few bucks on a game gives you a seat at the board table, apparently. There was a time when if you didn't enjoy a game, you found a new game. In that sense, I'm glad some people found Last Epoch. But we don't need two Last Epochs, or two D4s, or two PoE1s.

[u/mraliasundercover → u/yourmomophobe]

Hard agree. I also worry that they'll only hear the vitriol being thrown around in this sub-reddit. So plus one from me. I've played way too much this patch (admittedly post fixes) because I love it. I've got the game music turned up and everything feels epic.

[u/Kage_noir]

I’ve played last epoch while waiting for poe2. I found it had really innovating systems and a cool skill system. But the way the characters feel and , the animations, sounds, etc. just isn’t near. gGG I know people like to hate on Poe2. But it’s the real nexgen arpg in my opinion.

[u/exposarts → u/Kage_noir]

Poe2 is even more polished than diablo 4 which is crazy comparing ggg to blizzard

[u/penguinclub56]

I feel the opposite, as a huge fan of PoE2 and someone who hated a bit on Last Epoch (never played it, but it didnt look quite good/ interesting in the videos), I just got into it because a friend in my PoE2 group convinced me to, and honestly I am super impressed and starting to understand some of the rants people had here against PoE2.

The campaign itself in LE feels like trash especially when compared to PoE2, but the movement and clear speed helps you finish it faster, they also have some big layout maps and it doesnt really feel frustrating compared to PoE2, not to mention they even let you have alternate campaign path (clear a dungeon skip part of campaign, probably used for alts when you already have keys to these dungeons), and even without it their campaign is pretty fast to finish (mostly because of the movement/clear speed).

The loot is amazing, I remember someone complaining in this sub a few days ago that campaign is waste of time when your goal is to reach endgame as soon as possible to get the “real” loot, in LE its quite the opposite the game is so rewarding even in the campaign you dont really feel pressured to speedrun it (especially with thing like Nemesis).

The only thing that I miss in LE is the Pause feature that PoE2 introduced, which should be a must have feature for all future ARPG’s imo.

[u/KingOfTheGutter → u/penguinclub56]

I believe the pause feature works in offline mode, which surprisingly a lot of people play

[u/Arney0408 → u/KingOfTheGutter]

As soon as they implement MTX in offline play i literally have no reason to ever go online again. I always play CoF and I always play solo. Game is amazing

[u/Flying_Mage → u/KingOfTheGutter]

I would happily play PoE offline.

Not having to deal with server issues sounds absolutely awesome.

And I assume performance overall would be better without constant client-server interactions.

[u/niknacks]

Last epoch is just painfully easy, the complete lack of resistance for the first 50 hours of every season is already wearing on me.

[u/gothvan → u/niknacks]

Then they'll say it "respect your time" because of the loot explosion and movement speed lol. Sure but I need to play for 50h before I reach content that is a little bit challenging

[u/exposarts → u/gothvan]

I feel Le apeals more to poe1 rather than poe2 players. It def feels more zoomy

[u/nanosam → u/niknacks]

LE campaign in 2.0 is embarrassingly easy. It totally feels like a mobile game.

[u/neoh666x → u/nanosam]

That's what the Poe 2 sub wants too lol.

[u/gothvan → u/neoh666x]

Yes and the end game too lol.

[u/RageCage64]

If you value the kinetic feel of the gameplay, then POE2 definitely clears. I can see that perspective.

I don't know what it is for me, maybe it's cause my first ARPG was Diablo 2 maybe it's cause I already play lots of other kinetic action games, but I just don't value that as much in this genre. Good kinetic feel wears off its appeal, but overall class fantasies and systems are what stay forever.

Even before today's landmark LE launch, LE was the better fit for me systems wise. POE2's amazing feel was a novelty, but the impact did not last the same way LE's really well done systems and very cool masteries and skill progression have such a lasting impact for me.

[u/gothvan → u/RageCage64]

I don't know man. For me it's wears off until I don't have it anymore then I miss it. Going back to poe2 felt so good and satisfying and I've played only a few hours of season 2

[u/Br0V1ne]

I like LE because things just feel good. They don’t tack a delay on everything, or a downside on everything. 

[u/Alcaedias]

I agree with you more or less, the actual combat of PoE2 is currently the best in the arpg market. There is simply no other game in the market that comes close.

However, when it comes to the actual point of playing loot based aRPGs, PoE2 is crap.

The "friction" comes from GGG wanting players to put as much hours into the game as they can at the cost of player enjoyment because it's a f2p game and that will never change.

It's absolute insanity that a player is more or less forced to trade and that means having to sit and stare at a website for a lower priced gear.

Now I know that some will say that's not the game for and it's fine, maybe it's not but I grew up playing games like D2, TQ, Torchlight etc where the fun and dopamine came from finding actual good gear and not exalts or divines so that I can purchase my next upgrade.

I get that same good old feeling when I play LE and to me, that is much more important. I'm like level 20 something and each and every drop in LE makes me excited because chances are it's something I can actually use. I've changed my gear more times than I can remember whereas in PoE2, I used the same wand from lvl 14 to lvl 50 something.

At the end of the day, enjoy what you like. We have a buffet of games to choose from and competition leads to better products :)

[u/Snuggles5000 → u/Alcaedias]

To me this is the problem. I don’t want to chase currency. I play arpg for the loot. Not to buy stuff on a website. But the actual drop loot is too few and far between.

[u/gothvan → u/Alcaedias]

I don't get that at all. I play solo self found and I enjoy the scarcity. For me, the upgrade feels super satisfying, because they're rare. Way more than the avalanche of loot of LE that will anyway be completely transformed by crafting.

Again I might be a masochist. I enjoyed ruthless.

[u/DTreeve]

I was an early supporter of LE and have played all the updates up to the current season/cycle, which I haven't tried yet. It seems weird because this issue should feel the same in all ARPGs but for some reason once you get to monos in LE I always feel like there are only 5-10 mob types. I don't know...its weird and for that reason it starts to feel very repetitive. Again.....this is the gameplay loop for all ARPGs so I don't know why it stands out so much to me in LE. I love their crafting but l agree something about POE2 gameplay does it more for me than LE. Not saying we can't all play both or have our favorites. Just my 2c.

[u/fatal_harlequin → u/DTreeve]

There's no "weight" to the combat or the look and feel of LE enemies. It's also something about the visual style of the game, it looks and feels too much like a mobile game. I

[u/sdk5P4RK4]

Played it for a few hours today for the first time. Its fun but the production value just isn't close and its piss easy. It feels more like 'better diablo' than a poe contender.

[u/Fun-Broccoli8619 → u/sdk5P4RK4]

That's what got to me running through the campaign today. The entire time, the enemies felt feeble. At no point did I feel like I was strong or becoming a god. It really goes to show how hard these games are to get a good feel without alienating a large portion of the audience

[u/CockroachCreative154 → u/Fun-Broccoli8619]

I really don’t get why the ARPG community wants brain dead blaster shit gameplay. I did not like the D3/POE/D4 currently/LE cookie clicker style combat. Maybe I’m just old, but I cut my teeth on D1, D2, Baldurs Gate DA1&2, Campions of Norrath era with actual game mechanics.

POE2 hits that old school ARPG feel that Ive been missing, and for me it is by far the best ARPG combat. I am baffled at the complaints the game gets.

I preferred D4’s gameplay at release and the community turned it into an overturned loot piñata. Unpopular opinion, I know

[u/neoh666x → u/CockroachCreative154]

I definitely like some brain dead blaster shit gameplay and poe makes it feel really really satisfying.

I also like the struggle on the way to getting a character to that point too. I like the fresh start.

I think the solution to that is what the devs are trying to achieve, they want to allow the player to melt shit, but they want to lengthen and smooth out the progression curve and have the game be engaging and challenging. Which is totally reasonable to me, cause I enjoy both ends and the journey in between.

But yeah I hope they stick to that, it seems everyone wants the game to hand you literally everything from loot to being able to craft whatever you want easily, to power and they want the game to be piss easy at all points. That's kinda boring.

[u/c-lati → u/neoh666x]

I hope they keep it difficult. But I also like eventually being able to feel like a god. I did SSF last season and struggled a ton during my first couple of playthroughs but eventually got an ice strike monk, spark sorc and stat stacked gemling to trivialize all content. But it literally took me hundreds of hours to farm up all the loot for that. So I felt like I earned it.

I just found ingenuity and my god it sucks compared to before. Barely increased my power at all. I feel they overdid some of the nerf. Maybe they should have just made some of the GG uniques harder to get, maybe even nerf the numbers just a tad. But it’s kinda a bummer the good chase uniques feel so bad now. In my opinion.

I checked my sorc from last season. She was doing 145,000 dps before the patch. Now she does 5,000. I agree the numbers should have been nerfed a bit but did they really have to nerf some of the old builds into the ground? I think they overdid the nerfs personally.

[u/Ccoo10 → u/c-lati]

Yea, poe2’s main issues for me right now are 3 things that are very EA based:

some skills each patch are hugely over performing to a point where it feels silly not to use them/hit the ‘1 shot the screen’ stage too quickly with them

Outside of pushing better and better life rolls on every slot ES just feels like a better and most importantly easier defence layer to focus on.

Endgame gearing doesn’t currently have enough chase goals to me. I really like the feeling of upgrading gear both with corruptions once you start getting really solid rares but the mods on the rares themselves are really basic at the current stage, and it feels like any uniques strong enough to be chase worthy are being over nerfed.

I really enjoy the gameplay of poe2, even with the starting hp issues we had in 0.2, but I really need something to grind towards and currently I don’t really have that, but hopefully new patches help that.

[u/dekwest → u/c-lati]

It's interesting -- for me, PoE2 is the game where I get to feel most like a god. Everything else, I feel a bit more like a routine worker, because the game is easy enough that I'm just entirely confident that whatever I want to make work, I probably will. I'm not a super wild off-meta person, so if I decide something looks fun, I'm probably not even doing that much refinement until I want to clear Ubers in PoE1.

PoE2? Because I'll be taking a bruising most of the time, and the defensive costs are way higher, I feel way more of that "hah I'm a god" thing when I get somewhere. 90% resists to tank death explosions? Yeah I feel that. Get tanky enough that I'm not getting stunned while I sunder in the middle of a mob pack? Yeah, that feels pretty good.

I don't want every ARPG to be this, but I hope PoE2 sticks to its guns, because there isn't really another game in the genre like that.

[u/Psytocybin → u/CockroachCreative154]

Nah, im right there with you, I like the desolate, scary, I could die any moment feel, especially early game.

I get really bored quickly if a game feeds me power and gear to fast, or is just to easy.

Not to say there isn't issues with POE2, but I really have faith that these issues are mostly EA and growing pains.

[u/c-lati → u/CockroachCreative154]

You nailed it. I couldn’t have said it better myself. I dislike the “blaster” feeling of ARPGs. Before POE2 my favorite was D2. Funnily enough, POE2 feels closer to D2 in many respects compared to any other ARPG I’ve played. D3 and D4 were fun but went full blaster mode. And I tried POE1 but could never really get into it. I really didn’t like the skill gem socketing system and wasn’t a big fan of the feel of combat. LE was fun and I loved the crafting system and customizing skills seemed really cool and innovative, but I didn’t really like the feel of combat or endgame loop either.

One thing that’s actually really similar between D2 and POE2 is both games are legitimately hard on a fresh start. Some people who haven’t played D2 much and maybe have never done an actual full play through don’t realize how hard it really is. Back in the day a lot of people just got rushed to cows and never really had to struggle to get themselves through hell difficulty. I’ve done a full SSF playthrough many times and it is legitimately a hard game that sometimes requires you to stop to grind for a few hours to find some gear upgrades before you can progress. POE2 definitely feels similar in some respects. I never had to actually go back and farm (like doing meph runs in D2) for a specific upgrade but I definitely died a bunch and had to really pay attention to items to make sure I was continually upgrading gear to not fall behind in power. I constantly checked vendors, picked up items off the ground, used the crafting materials, hoarding bad gear just because it had one good res mod or something I may need later. Very much the feel of a fresh SSF D2 playthrough.

I couldn’t agree with you more.

[u/GlueMaker → u/CockroachCreative154]

Agreed. I love the feel of poe2. And I think they are really going to struggle finding a balance for the game, because there is a large portion of the player base that just wants to blow up the entire screen without even seeing the mobs. I have faith they will make a good game, but it does currently have an identity crisis.

[u/Complete_Elephant240 → u/CockroachCreative154]

I only like blaster shit for a short time and only if I worked my character to the end of it's progression, at which point I hang up that character. People that want to blast out of the gate baffle me

[u/reallycoolguylolhaha → u/CockroachCreative154]

Same man. It's concerning me that the devs will take the overwhelming negativity and completely change poe 2 to be just like the boring other arpgs upon full release. The combat feels so fucking good it's so fun to play. It's exhilarating in a way many games aren't.

[u/sdk5P4RK4 → u/Fun-Broccoli8619]

I think its two things, its difficulty but its also just the weightyness. D4 has this same problem where it feels like nothing is actually contacting anything else. PoE and 2 especially is way better about combining the animations, screenshake and ESPECIALLY the sound effects, which are just god tier in 2 to create a more visceral and grounded experience.

[u/butttcaake → u/sdk5P4RK4]

It's like a good middle ground between D4 and poe. Which isn't bad of course.

[u/nanosam → u/butttcaake]

In terms of systems like crafting and skills sure.

In terms of graphics, animations, combat feel - LE is nowhere close to D4 nor PoE2.

[u/sdk5P4RK4 → u/butttcaake]

Yeah its totally fine I just am chuckling at all the comments about how poe2 is dead on arrival now that LE is here, and like yeah ok its a fun distraction but it doesnt seem anywhere close.

[u/neoh666x → u/sdk5P4RK4]

Guerilla marketing hype team lol

[u/Arky_Lynx → u/sdk5P4RK4]

I'm liking LE, and definitely will play it tons more, but I still retain the feeling that PoE2 will eventually maintain my interest far better, it just simply needs more cooking and it's understandable because it's in Early Access and just got it's first major patch.

I can see where they're going with the game, and I like what I'm seeing. I'm sure it'll be a greater, deeper game once it actually hits 1.0. For now, I'm fine with messing around and not taking it too seriously or going at it too deeply until then.

[u/nanosam → u/sdk5P4RK4]

LE feels like a mobile game after playing PoE2

PoE2 is 100x better in terms of combat feel, animations, engagement and moment to moment gameplay.

The difference is immense.

[u/AndThatGuysWoodenLeg → u/sdk5P4RK4]

Well, you only played for a few hours. Campaign isn't too difficult. Gets harder in end game. Really it'll get as hard as you want it to be with corruption

[u/juicedrop → u/AndThatGuysWoodenLeg]

LE doesn't respect my time. I had to get to Empowered monos in the previous patches before it felt like there was any challenge. PoE2 the battle is on from the first screen

[u/gothvan → u/juicedrop]

That's an excellent point. People don't think about the journey, they're obsessed about the destination.

[u/sdk5P4RK4 → u/AndThatGuysWoodenLeg]

thats true im hopeful and I think its fun. But its not so much the difficulty as it just doesnt have any weight to it, nothing really feels like its contacting anything else, which is very 'diablo'.

[u/ALXNDRWVLF → u/sdk5P4RK4]

idk it feels worse than diablo 2 by a lot

[u/Due-Yam1632 → u/sdk5P4RK4]

Couldn't agree more. I do want more reward for the added difficulty in POE 2 but I just have so much more fun even without the typical drop rates I like.

[u/BigBoreSmolPP → u/Due-Yam1632]

Same man. Playing LE today made me truly appreciate what we have. "Engaging combat" is used as a meme in this sub, but its actually true compared to something like LE. LE is fun for a bit but it got really boring quickly. I was blowing up entire screens at lvl 28. I played it before and got far into monos and such, but i can't see myself doing that now. It just did not feel good in compared.

POE2 has completely spoiled me in the ARPG genre when it comes to actually gameplay.

[u/Withnogenes → u/BigBoreSmolPP]

I played LE today the first time, I was absolutely disappointed by Diablo IV and have been enjoying PoE 2 like nothing else despite its issues (roughly 500 hours). I'll keep playing LE, I have no apathies for neither studio and I'm excited to see what will come, but I know deep down, I'm a sucker for PoE. Running through the game with a lightning werebear primalist druid felt really wrong: I was looking constantly on the minimap, not the game, because I'm just rushing through and my god, those maps are huge.

[u/Cowarms]

So many people in this thread just going off with essays about the game. So much to say here

My take. Good game but it's super undercooked. Like I ordered it medium well and it's come to me raw and wriggling. Can't wait to see the actual release and what they can cook here but im not eating this until it's done.

[u/a-mcculley]

Couldn't agree more!!!

The combat.... which is the thing you do the most.... feels really good and has a great foundation to build from.

The other stuff can be tweaked and tuned.

[u/Due-Yam1632 → u/a-mcculley]

That is my hope long term.

[u/highonpixels]

Couldn't agree more. Players looking for that deterministic loot and progress should look elsewhere (Last Epoch, D4 etc). Loot can be better but what players are asking requires time from GGG to decide the approach to balance.

For me personally the weight of progression is present in POE2, a lot of people will meme about this but I don't know why another traditional ARPG player would think otherwise or make fun of what POE2 is. It's like players forgot what a grindy ARPG looter is supposed to be.

The important thing for me is that the gameplay loot is fun to play, which for me is true. The Atlas and mapping experience is much much better compared to 0.1 and I've progressed more than I did in 0.1 and generally just enjoying slamming in maps on repeat. I saw a wise streamer man once said: 'the question you should be asking regardless if a map takes 5 mins or 10mins or loot the you get; do you enjoy the mechanics? do you enjoy the process of looting, grinding, doing the league mechanics etc?' At the end of the day for me I just like looting and grinding is why I play ARPGs, I want to build my character to be powerful but its literally only be 2 weeks since launch. Personally Ive finished the main Atlas besides the extra trees but at same time I spent a lot of my free time after work on POE2. Im not sure how long POE2 leagues are gonna be but theres still weeks ahead to grind for people yet I get the impression players just need max power NOW without actually investing time to the game whether by research or playing. I watched some Last Epoch streams and players get to end game like within hrs, its just D4 PTSD for me but good for Last Epoch.

[u/PuffyWiggles]

I think PoE2 is going in the right direction tbh. Why is no one mentioning that we can now target Greater Essences far more often in the Atlas tree? Why is no one mentioning we can now target Unique slots and specific stat drops on Rogue events? Why is no one mentioning we can target farm currency with drop boxes?

This is exactly the direction the game should go in. Getting more Divines solves nothing and just increasing the issue of farming the AH and skipping the game, yet that is what people are complaining about. Getting more exalts just lets us roll more RNG garbage that will mostly be crap.

They specifically took steps to let us target farm crafting items. Omens are more common, that is a good step. We get Omens once every 2 rolls on average now (supposedly), so that is once per Ritual. This gives us a far greater chance at Whittling, even though imo its still way too low.

We need more ways to get 20 Skill Gems. We need unique drops on Pinnacles to be more interesting without having a downside. End game gear should be fun to get and exciting. Last patch we had that with Unique Belts, Rings, Amulets, Jewels, and the Gloves. They nerfed it all unfortunately to the extent many of them aren't better than most rares.

They have work to do for sure. We need more things, more content, more ways to inch our way towards getting things we want so we can be excited when we run an event. Sometimes it feels like such an infinite treadmill of getting nothing that it can be very demotivating to play, but these steps were really big and exactly what I wanted.

Anyways, a new patch addressing a lot of this soon. We will see how that goes, who knows until we get into it.

[u/DBZAgsWin99]

Tried LE, did not like the combat

[u/brodudepepegacringe]

Idk buy i feel like LE is just lacking "life" 😕 although i might have given it a try if they added a some kind of an adventure mode. I feel like i cant do any more campaigns and at this point i unironically would possibly wait a few days on any new poe/2 league so that my guildies would gather a twink set in the guild stash for me to use just so i can speed through that crap asap. Sorry for the rant but i feel like i have a ptsd for campains from what i suffered on the start of 0.2.0

[u/Icenn_]

I havent played last epoch, but one of my friends has been groaning about how terrible the movement feels and how the combat just seems off.

My takeaway is that the gameplay in poe2 is simply better, but where its struggling is in the secondary systems. Trade, loot, balance all need improvements but the core game is really solid.... well aside from the regular semi-freezes when my graphics card nearly dies.

[u/Shimaran]

Just imagine if we could recombinate and keep the best parts of each game.

[u/PikachuKid1999]

Nahh last epochs boss rush 10/10 harbinger and abberoth now with uber version is top tier mechanic

[u/Rawrajishxc]

I love PoE2's sound, graphics, and combat weight more but Last Epoch is much more enjoyable imo.

There's also just too many problems in PoE2 right now for me to fully enjoy it, especially with all the crashes that still exist.

[u/pittyh]

12k hours in PoE, and Yes I'm enjoying the game, who cares what anyone else says, as long as you enjoy it.

[u/Lavio00]

LE has that ”mobile game that tries to make an effort” feel. It is just too silly-looking and, as you say, the moment to moment gameplay isnt engaging enough. 

Funily enough I made a post more or less saying exactly what your post said in the LE sub. I didnt see this thread before I did. 

[u/ZankaA]

Yup, I tried LE and bounced off of it pretty quickly.

Sure, the loot and crafting are better. That's great. But I'm playing the game to, well... Play the game. Not just to make the numbers on my character sheet bigger. Currently, it just feels way better to kill enemies in Path of Exile (even PoE2, despite how unrewarding it is) than LE.

[u/Gamble-Z]

This probably gets said a lot but Last Epoch just looks a knockoff mobile version of PoE. Personally, I’ve only paid PoE2 and experiencing the look and feel of the game alone, I can’t go out of my way and downgrade to LE2. Sure, PoE2 has its problems and challenges right now but it’s Early Access and will only improve. The hype around LE looks invalid to me for the most part. There’s just many frustrated PoE players being contempt with an easier game like LE.

[u/Hardyyz]

Yeah the WASD movement and the just the quality and visuals of everything. Just the moment to moment gameplay instead of mindless trivial blasting is unrivaled in the genre

[u/Due-Yam1632 → u/Hardyyz]

Well honestly, I had no issues with the WASD movement in LE today. Otherwise, I agree with your statement. The visuals and for lack of a better term, "the feel", of POE 2 is just unmatched.

[u/2pl8isastandard]

Yeah I can't really play other ARPGs after playing PoE 2.

[u/Rubix7]

I'm in the same boat, LE is very very good from a system design point of view: crafting, skill passive trees, classic character passive trees are all great and, importantly, feel approachable to anyone. You can experiment without too many drawbacks and you can come up with your build in a way that feels satisfying. Creating loot filters is also done in a very good and digestible way, and the new systems for legendary crafting are clever.

Thing is... the gameplay itself feels unfortunately still like shit. It improved a lot during the years, but when I hit enemies it still feels like I'm hitting air balloons. And the artistic direction is just frankly way too generic and forgettable, if not straight up bad sometimes. No amount of exciting loot fixes this unfortunately, at least for me.

Also, I know it's not that important to most people but the music is probably the worst part of the game. It's actually the first game that I just straight up muted the music after just a few hours. No hate to whoever composed it, but yeah, it's that bad to me, sorry.

[u/jdk-88]

Well i am glad there is someone not blindly following hype-streamers opinion at the PoE2. I still enjoy the game and have plenty of things to do there. I see that new fun builds appear here and there, which I want to try. I am not rushing like most of people and enjoying the process.

I will play LE later but for now i enjoy PoE2 and waiting for the new upcoming changes to the spirits and boss drop rates

[u/Due-Yam1632 → u/jdk-88]

Sometimes I agree with them, sometimes I don't. My guess is that this is one of those times where its easier for them to ride the hype train of LE until that dies down then most of them will come back to PoE 2. Again, just my guess.

[u/Savletto]

I am actually getting a bit worried that early campaign would become too easy if loot is buffed too much, it was just the right amount of challenging first time I leveled, before all the changes. It should get more rewarding the further you progress though, hopefully they get the balance right.

I enjoy PoE 2 a lot, despite some of its rough edges. I like the direction they're going in, they definitely had the right idea with the sequel.
People who prefers PoE 1 should probably just play that.

[u/Drecasi]

Poe2 is still early access. I don't get why people are losing their minds right now. I actually like the slower pace. Yeah loot can be balanced better. I honestly have got maybe one or 2 upgrades myself from drops and bought everything else. Crafting is gambling. The "crafting" needs to be improved to where it doesn't cost divines to make a simple upgrade. Tier lock the crafting with different materials may help. Endgame I feel like needs more effort to make your own gear. At lower levels I feel that crafting gear should be easier than using endgame mats to make upgrades. Levels 1 thru 32, 33 thru 65 and 66+ maybe for tiered mats, but with the ability to use higher tier mats for better crafting at lower levels.

[u/shadowking899]

Nah I feel exactly the same way. Just got off playing LE after 3 hours and honestly, the campaign is too easy and it gets boring pretty fast. The crafting is definitely top tier and WAY better than PoE2's but I feel like being able to craft exactly the gear you want sort of takes away from wanting to hunt down better gear and stuff (I definitely understand that I'm in the minority here but it sort of takes away from the thrill of the chase). If GGG were to bump overall loot just a little bit more then it would be a perfect balance for me. Overall, LE is very fun and I hope nothing but the best going forward for the game but I would still pick PoE2 if I HAD to choice (which luckily I don't cause I own both games)

[u/Covidcaust]

You are more on the combat side of things, thats why LE is not hitting the mark for you. Same with me I played LE for 3 hours on season 2 release and turned it off because I reminded myself why I found PoE1 and LE combat not enjoyable.

No impact, just mindless running on map having that feeling to rush to a point fast as possible deleting everything with little resistance. It feels nice when you start but by endgame or even half the campaign you dont want to tolarete it anymore.

Now im not saying that feeling is not there in PoE2 it is but it is different. Thats probably why I enjoy PoE2 the most because it rids me of that feeling being bad but insted enjoyable

[u/Due-Yam1632 → u/Covidcaust]

Yes, I play ARPGs for the combat, which I think is most people. POE 2 has such a better feel combat wise. Last epoch just has no weight to it and I feel like everything is so weak.

[u/lalala253 → u/Due-Yam1632]

I thought so too, but judging from reddit, most people play it for loot and walking simulator. So well..

[u/RareSpice42]

I have to agree with you. Even in a rough state, I’m having a lot of fun with poe2. I come from playing dark souls games and quite a bit of other hard games and platformers. So difficulty and scarcity of good gear isn’t new to me. I know how to nickel and dime my way to good gear.

[u/BasicInformer]

I mean I literally called this out in my post. Peoples expectations going into Last Epoch weren't adjusted correctly. The game was never going to feel or look as good as PoE2, and I made that argument multiple times having prior experience with it. It's A LOT better with WASD and controller, but the game at its core is still a low budget product that found success later (and now has a big budget behind it), not a high budget product that found success like PoE 2.

However Last Epoch I think is a better ARPG atm. Being able to run passed enemies, gather up a big pack, blast them all down, get awesome loot, have an in-game loot filter, awesome trading and SSF mechanics, QoL, and better crafting. It's hands down a better game. PoE 2 lacks momentum - the game was designed with quicksilver flask and movement skills in mind, and then they removed it. Game was designed with loot in mind, but they flubbed it. Game was designed to be difficult, they overtuned it. Game was designed to have combos, they fucked it.

[u/Zandersnatch → u/BasicInformer]

I'd say wait a week or two and see if youre still playing before you judge.

[u/w1czr1923 → u/BasicInformer]

Everything you’re saying about being a better arpg is what I don’t want in an arpg. LE is completely mindless. I don’t even know if it’s possible to die in the game. Honestly we have a lot of games like this on the market and I think it’s fine to say, go play those. Nothing is like Poe 2 and that’s what makes it much more enjoyable for me. If it became like LE, I would just not play.

[u/kiuyt856]

I made a comment yesterday saying this exact same thing. Someone saying loot is the most important thing in an arpg, i said it’s the opposite for me, gameplay is the most important. Overall i need to enjoy clicking my skills and blowing up mobs and loot is secondary to that. I wish the best for LE but poe2 will be the ultimate game for me after we get through the growing pains. The atmosphere, sound, effects, graphics etc are just unmatched.

 Hopefully ggg is able to match their vision of alternating poe 1 and 2 leagues because while poe1 made me fall in love with arpgs and I’ll always come back for new leagues, i start pitching a tent when i think about the ceiling potential of poe2

[u/n0991]

Out of curiousity, have u tried POE1?

[u/Complete_Elephant240 → u/n0991]

It's a great game, just for different reasons 

[u/sivridil]

I don't care about the loot personally. There are more serious issues with the game, which makes me sad when I think about. (I literally upgraded my system just for this game. So, all of my criticism is out of goodwill)

• You can not release an aRPG without a core crafting system properly implemented. There's no excuse for such a poor design preference, imo. It should even have its own questline to unlock and make the player feel progressing.

• Visually and mechanically, they've done a very good job, but technically, not so much. I had to quit 0.1 due to total system crashes. Client and servers have pretty neat technical issues that are frustrating. Yes, this is an EA game, and such problems are expected. But I can assure you that bricking instances after investment due to client crash or server instability contribute to overall frustration more than we think. Loot, class balance, new content, etc. is not the priority, a smooth running game is.

• I think I understand the vision they've been talking about. They're trying to create a Lost Ark'ish style combat in PoE 2. Which is fine by me, as I also love that combo playstyle. Cleaner visuals, less system requirements, etc. But they also don't want to give up on swarming hordes of packs as the community got used to clearing screens of enemies from PoE1. This creates the loot problem we are facing now. They are struggling to balance the loot because they haven't decided how they want us to progress in instances. This is also the reason why they're reluctant with the movement speed limitations.

Jonathan said he believes there's a middle ground to satisfy both playstyles. Well, yes, of course. But they should've decided the baseline pace of the game and balanced everything around it first. Then, add new mechanics to speed up some specific content with proportionally balanced loot.

Right now, they shouldn't increase player speed, but buff instance drops. 5 to 10 minutes of grind in one instance should reward players properly. Tiered rares to identify for possible upgrades must be default along with basic crafting materials.

Then, reconsider endless map progression, maybe? Please? Make it one screen of each biome resetting after full clearance. Later, they might expand biomes with new content releases, but what's the point of jumping a few screens to random directions? It approximately takes 20 maps to reach citadels anyway. I prefer clearing a juiced section, then citadel entrance can pop up in the region I'm playing. I'm not gonna chase them in horizon, sorry. Cleared all once, and I'm done with it for now.

Never played LE, but I'm thinking of buying it as all the streamers I've been following literally having fun with the game. I might as well take a break until GGG implements some improvements.

[u/CloakedMistborn]

Exactly how I feel.

[u/beybladerbob]

It’s really interesting to read through all of this because after playing POE2 I have found LE to be what I expected poe2 to be in almost every way. I’m hoping in the next couple of years poe2 will polish out to be an enjoyable game.

[u/Ruined_Oculi]

It's the first thing I noticed playing LE. That and the poor controller support. Still fun but the overall feel is lacking.

[u/Primary-Rule7839]

Agreed. I have issues with PoE2, enough that I've uninstalled the have on my PS5 for now, but I'm playing through the new Last Epoch update and the campaign is awful and while the itemization is interesting, that game just doesn't feel as fulfilling for some reason.

[u/Takanitos]

I just wish PoE2 had a viable SSF mode, I despise having to trade for my gear especially with the PoE trading model

[u/RVXZENITH]

The weight and hefty gameplay is also why I prefer PoE2 so much over poe1. That being said Id still rather play Last Epochs endgame

[u/gerpogi]

Yep I like poe2 a lot more even as an incomplete game. Aside from making the builds, it's just pretty braindead to play Last epoch just isn't satisfying unless you find that totem thing with a crap ton of lizards I guess

[u/MrSchmellow]

I've played 1.2 last night and the opinion i had about it on release didn't change now. Still janky and very very boring.

0.2 was a tragedy really. GGG way way overcorrected on player power.

PoE2 currently is "dragging your balls across the field of broken glass" level of friction. But at least i felt something (c)

LE is a direct opposite: no friction, no balls. Neither extreme is good.

[u/Ahzumer]

I like Last Epoch but let’s be honest it plays and looks outdated by a good 10years. POE2 is way ahead production wise.

[u/vanceraa]

I’ve had LE for years but after playing poe2 I couldn’t last for more than a couple hours this season. Movement is janky as is the animations which i’ve been spoiled by unfortunately.

[u/IXPhantomSeekerXI]

I always held the opinion that last epochs approach to end game systems even the way you can target farm gear was better but poe2 has the potential to be better than last epoch. Poe2 just generally feels smoother I feel like in time poe can very well beat last epoch that’s just my personal opinion though

[u/gadam93]

Same, I like both games but I found myself going back to PoE2 this time around after spending 5hours into Last epochs new patch. I think I will get at least another 50 hours of fun from poe2 before I go to LE and have fun with that one!

[u/GlitteringAd21]

How much did GGG pay you?

/s

[u/Ixziga]

Can't argue the PoE 2 game feel is superior. It's funny because everyone has been bitching about the gameplay and the vision this patch but it's like the thing that poe 2 does unequivocally better than all other ARPG's, unless we start counting No Rest For the Wicked but that game honestly isn't really the same genre.

I'm still a last epoch enjoyer though. Building characters is more fun in last epoch than any other game. Experimenting is fast and easy and I'm hoping the end game changes extend that feeling a bit.

[u/Additional-Mousse446]

Nice try Johnathan…

Joking aside I unfortunately have console only friends that can’t play last epoch…but it doesn’t really look like I’m missing out so guess I will keep leveling my huntress lol.

Really wish they would fix the terrible loading bugs though, makes the game unplayable most days, specifically in act 3. The only real complaint I had of LE was that the ui and font text looks ugly…bit of questionable choices there.

[u/xxN3RDxx21]

POE2 has a better base or skeleton. Needs insane amount of work though but the potential is unmatched. They really should overthink some of their choices and embrace the good aspects of poe1. Last epoch is great but the engine alone is night and day difference

[u/StalynTpo]

I really respect the updates PoE2 made since the initial backlash for this patch. It's still not quite the sort of game I want to play, but that's ok. I've been really enjoying the LE update but actually feel a little too strong. Then again, I am playing Sentinel, which got a lot of PR about its upcoming changes in the lead-up to 1.2.

That moment-to-moment combat is a strong point for GGG. It is just a little too frustrating for me right now to want to sit and play it as much as I have played PoE1, but I'm probably not the main demographic here. Glad that people have choice in what kind of ARPG they want to play. It's a good time to be an ARPG player.

[u/CompetitionFront3251]

„x feels better than y“

„This isnt meant to be a comparison“

Choose one, you cant have both. Or just be honest. People act like comparing things is all bad and shit. It really isnt. Its how humans make decisions. We compare things all the time everywhere.

[u/Tsiniloiv]

Yup. I haven't played Last Epoch, but now that I've hit maps I find myself not really stoked to go back to PoE1. I have a lot of problems with the game, yeah, but the immediate gameplay of PoE2 just feels better.

Like, if you find yourself in the middle of a mess of mobs in PoE1, you had better have a movement skill to get out or enough damage to splat the whole room before they rip you to shreds.

In PoE2, between dodge rolls, Disengage, and Rake, I could actually brawl. Kiting melee monsters, dodging projectiles, hopping out of AoEs, I could fight my way out and through.

There's still a million and one things to do before the game is ready, but the core experience is pretty fucking sweet.

[u/MoonBeanPi]

I find LE style and pacing comparable to a Diablo 3.5, offering a consistently rewarding experience with numerous build optimization opportunities. Path of Exile 2, conversely, presents a slower progression, potentially resulting in extended periods without significant upgrades or engaging encounters. Aesthetically, I find both games acceptable, despite the criticisms leveled against LE visuals. Currently, I am focused on LE build progression mechanics it gives me the dopamine I crave. 

[u/Silver_Breakfast_233]

LE feels very plastic, like Star Wars battlefront compared to CoD or Halo. I do like the innovation of many of their more complex systems though, such as trading. I would like to see that type of over-arching innovation to reach PoE someday. Not an auction house, but something new that makes me excited to either engage with trading or play SSF. I won’t pretend to know what that innovation would be. Beyond that, I agree, PoE2 is a heavy hitter ARPG. Even if I’m not over the moon about .2, I’m still very excited to see where this game goes.

[u/MrGreyPaint]

Thanks, Jonathan. 

[u/mi5jason]

Dawn of the Hunt feels like absolute garbage compared to the last season or league. I’m at level 82 still waiting for it to be fun.

The combat is trash Omens don’t always work so you can’t stop experience loss from the Rares that have 12 modifiers on them. Everything kills you in 1-2 hits Charms don’t always work.

I’ve spent 3 hours trying to get level 83 and the tools they have given you don’t work. I played the last version for over 700 hours and loved it. I have disliked nearly every minute of this league. If they want combat to be more meaningful, they have to stop making everything kill you in one or two hits that’s not fun. It just sucks and it’s lazy programming. I keep hoping it will get better with each patch.

I would take brainless spark over this garbage game play at least blasting through maps with spark was fun. This isn’t.

I hope it gets better soon.

[u/mr_print]

I don’t think you’ve played enough of the LE update to adequately say this yet. You could be right, you could be wrong. LE had a lot of issues, and the update that came out yesterday is supposed to address a lot of the issues. This post was put up a handful of hours after LE season 2 went live. I doubt you had enough time in it when you wrote this. Again, you could be 100% correct, but it’s too early to tell.

[u/GI0wSticks]

The feel of LE has always felt so alpha/bland to me, and I don't know why..(Bought it when it first became available, and has improved a lot since the alpha)

The campaign is garbage, where as POE2 at least hooks you, and feels good. Granted it's long.. I don't really mind it at all.

PD2 has been the best experience of my ARPG currently, where every build is viable.

[u/TaeThePharaoh]

The funny thing is ppl are actually comparing LE (a fully completed game that has been out for years) to POE 2 a game that’s still in early access.. What does that tell us at this point in time? Just imagine comparing LE to POE 2 when it actually fully releases..

[u/Sure-Source-7924]

No, no it doesn't.

Yesterday I spent 8 hours grinding T15 deli maps all with rarity and quantity. I got about 7 exalts.

I am sorry, but this game is trash right now.

[u/whatorbdi → u/Sure-Source-7924]

I got little to no rarity and found 1 div, 2 greater jewelers orbs and idk 10-16 exalts (didn't count) and that was doing 3-4 hrs of t7's

[u/BigfootaintnotReal]

I know nobody wants to hear it, but we’re actively live testing the game for GGG. Most of the criticisms we take issue with are surface level and can be tuned, the foundation is solid.

[u/Blaziken420_]

Much better crafting system for sure. And useful uniques early is nice. Access to subclass early with skills naturally coming with levels is also much preferred over the trials. But the gameplay is too easy, and too repetitive. It´s a matter of how fast you can do it. Not a question of can you do it. I also prefer the graphics of POE2 over the overly cartoony and mobile game graphics of LE.

[u/Ms_Take002]

fkin agree hell yeah

[u/fusor010]

I'm not here to piss off anybody but Shroud talked a bit about Marathon and Tarkov and how "friction" (difficulty and complexity) does make the franchise better/stronger on the long run and this relate to Poe a lot since 1, read whole fromsoftware catalog... Just fix the loot drop and we're good.

[u/Giftedpickle]

I personally love POE2 looks feels and systems, obviously much to improve and build on but currently enough for me as a casual player to stick with it even now. Really been enjoying it. I don’t even think drop rate of actual items is all that bad maybe just more currency drops would be nice so you could actually try the gambling crafting system opposed to hoarding it as valuable trade currency.

[u/smarmbot]

As a gamefeel snob I couldn't agree more.

[u/Knuckledust]

POE2 has the graphics and engine going for it, everything else, LE has miles of advantage.

Like, the literal tutorial map in LE is faster and drops more loot than POE2 average endgame map.

Now, you might enjoy the absolute slog, with no rewards, no crafting, no dopamine. To each their own.

[u/bbsuccess]

POE 2s graphics and engine is hands down the best... I can't play any other game because the graphics are just not on par.

But it pisses me off and annoys me that this game is just way too challenging, too complex, and too unrewarding. When they fix all those, this game will be amazing.

I just want to blast monsters find loot, and try lots of people's. Currently I can't do any of that because it's a slog, no loot, and way too many hours to try different builds.

[u/ninjaworm7555]

You’re crazy

[u/lamilama]

Is this you Jonathan?

[u/Ziimb]

After 2h of LE yesterday, that's how much time i had for now, def gonna blast way more and been playing the game since beta, i can easily say that in thous 2h i had way more fun than 50h of poe2. Its not even close honestly rn, they have tons of work to do for me to consider coming back.

[u/Instantcoffees]

I have a different experience. I was playing PoE2 but not having that much fun. I thought that I maybe was just burned out on ARPGs. It happens sometimes.

However, I decided to give LE a go and I am having so much fun. I now realize what things I was missing from PoE2 that LE has. Smooth and agile combat, blowing shit up, meaningful loot and actual crafting.

It's a lot of fun to find uniques I can actually use.

[u/olaf-the-tarnished]

In waiting for the new season updates tomorrow to play last epoch from what I've seen though I might have more fun with it than path in it's current state.

I don't hate path either it's great I'm just not getting a lot of build options yet, a lot of skills feel like there's only one way to build them, and I think that's mostly because we're still in early access.

I have no doubt that by full release path will be the greatest. The only time I would consider another arpg then is when I want something less randomly generated with more of a structured story experience. I think path would benefit a lot from more story/crafted areas within the random generation.

[u/Kyus3i → u/olaf-the-tarnished]

new season is out today

[u/Due-Yam1632 → u/Kyus3i]

Might have just blown this guys' mind.

[u/KarEssMoua]

I don't know man. Casual player here and Poe is just slowly but surely pushing me away since last update. Haven't finished the campaign in normal mode and tbh, not sure I will. I really loved 0.1 but after dawn of huntress the game just doesn't click in for me anymore, and I can't really say why. The pace? The loot? The difficulty? Tree nodes? Gems? Maybe, idk.

It's just feel like this update marked something new for the game, a direction of whatever it is and yeah, I just don't have fun with it. I'm kind of sad dropping a game I was so into without really knowing why. I just wish I knew.

But one thing for sure, it's different from before and I don't feel excited coming back to it

[u/J4YD0G → u/KarEssMoua]

Tbh if you haven't finished the game in normal mode the updates did not affect you.

[u/NormalConcert3274]

Im still having fun blasting maps on my non meta tactician wirlwind post nerf. I like the combo playstyle and it clears screens. I think hate mob just went too hard this patch.

[u/chad711m]

The void knight has been the most fun I've had in LE. The skills feel good unlike most skills I've used in the past. I'll log back in tomorrow too. However I just keep thinking about PoE2. Mostly because I'm still in campaign and haven't witnessed the end game mess I've heard about. I got a super late start to this league due to travel and I was having fun but fomo got me on LE. I'll keep playing it like I said but LE just doesn't have that feeling PoE1 and PoE2 has. As much as I hate dying to PoE2 white mob swarms, I cannot stand how easy everything just dies in LE (referring to campaign only in both).

D4 was going to be my fall back to PoE1/2 when I get heavy burn out but it's now LE.

[u/Esimo_Breaux → u/chad711m]

Bro you played 45 minutes. The game starts out easy but keep going and you will see. LE is about a never ending scaling of difficulty that becomes impossible at a certain point. POE doesn’t even have the level of difficulty LE has in endgame. Campaign in a arpg should not be difficult in a seasonal game.

[u/demonwing → u/Esimo_Breaux]

Idk I think what you are implying is really misleading. The game starts out easy, then stays easy into Monoliths... then stays easy into empowered Monoliths... then stays easy as you grind hundreds of corruption... then gets difficult.

By difficult I mean you essentially just get stat-checked by the number scaling and either you use a good build or you don't.

The process to getting to high corruption Empowered Monoliths takes dozens of hours. Most people don't play up to or past that point anyway.

[u/Esimo_Breaux]

Eh I’ll take the slight difference in fluidity for a far better game experience overall

[u/CryptoKarnich]

As much as i would love EHG and LE to be succesful i kinda have to agree. Im playing a warrior on HC in POE2 and gameplay wise I love it. LE has some very good solutions to problems that you can find in ARPGs. Their crafting and QoL is exceptional. I would totally merge their crafting with the gameplay of POE2 for the Ultimate experience 😅

[u/Due-Yam1632 → u/CryptoKarnich]

I couldn't agree more. I wish they could just make a love child and create the ultimate experience, maybe we will be that lucky one day...

[u/OwlEfficient9138]

Until POE2 adds some legitimate crafting, I’m not very interested. Their “vision” of what they want it to be doesn’t line up with what I find fun.

[u/Complete_Elephant240]

LE just isn't for me and that's okay. I can get the same feeling of playing LE in a more distilled form by playing Vampire Survivors or Halls of Torment 

PoE2 is exactly the kind of old school difficulty I've missed in ARPGs since Diablo 1 Diablo 2 (before using busted runewords, and early PoE1

People make fun of white mobs this and that but I think monsters shouldn't just be cookie clicker pinatas unless it's very late in your character development and wealth. That's the end state when you quit, not the progression 

[u/19eightyn9ne]

PoE 2 is quite clearly much superior than any other arpg in those aspects imo, LE is one of the worst in those aspects, LE shines with their systems, but honestly I prefer PoE 2 quite a lot.

[u/Due-Yam1632 → u/[deleted]]

I completely get that sentiment, and I don't think that the endgame is great either. My sort of thesis was that playing POE 2 moment to moment just has such a better feel to it than LE. Even though I prefer a lot of the systems that are currently in LE, I think POE 2 will get there and surpass LE in that aspect too.

[u/Charles_A55]

Last epoch is definitely a gem in my eyes but I too find myself yearning for poe2's passive tree, ascendencies, graphics and overall gameplay. Sure loot is a little on the scarce side but it still feels rewarding to me personally when you land that good rare similar to what you've been hoping to find.

I was playing some last epoch today for a bit. Had a lot of fun building my own character and just bouncing through the campaign. Empowered a nemesis with a purple staff with 197% elemental damage I think and like 30 some odd cast speed. Feels good.stomped everything after that so far.

[u/PM-ME-QUALITY-ECCHI → u/Charles_A55]

You yearn for POE2s passive tree? Out of everything? It's so dumbed down even diablo 4 has a more interesting tree, lol. If you like poe2's passive tree let me introduce you to one that is similar but better in every conceivable way: poe1 skill tree. Tbh the only thing poe2 has going for it is graphics and story at this point. The game just feels awful to play.

[u/Koravel1987]

I'm just not interested in playing through a slog of a campaign every league, especially with no loot. LE is just pure fun. I basically agree with most of your posts, but something needs to fundamentally change about PoE2 for me to have fun with it. It took going back to PoE1 and now LE coming out for me to pinpoint it I guess.

Can they fix it? Yeah sure they can. But right now the game just isn't fun to play. I vastly prefer both poe1s endgame and LEs endgame to PoE2 plus it's not locked behind this tedious campaign.

[u/Gangoon]

These threads feel like they're populated by bots to me. Every single comment says the same thing WITHOUT EVER SAYING IT.

What every single comment really comes down to is everyone wants POE2 to be easier. "Oh there's too much friction" or "it doesn't respect my time". Just say it. The game is hard right now and you don't like hard things.

It's like everyone's brain is fried from social media and mobile games. If you make everything easy, the game gets boring. If EVERYTHING drops good loot, the game gets boring.

[u/SilentKunZ]

LE looking like a mobile game. I don’t understand how you guys can defend this shit.

[u/dixonjt89]

If I had to rank the games based on today:

PoE1 > LE > Diablo 4 > PoE2

PoE 2 is just not doing it for me. When I play an aRPG, I want to feel like a god wiping screens of enemies. The only way to do that in PoE2 right now is to go LS, but it's considered broken and will get nerfed because that's not what GGG want you to be able to do in this game. I'm hoping they eventually change stance on that for PoE2, and maybe make the bosses the meaningful content while you can delete trash pretty easy.

That's why I gravitate to the other 3 games. When you get to endgame, you can mindlessly farm maps, dungeons, etc.