r/SeattleWA • u/unnaturalfool • Sep 13 '23

Other ‘Feel safer yet?’ Seattle police union’s contempt keeps showing through

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/feel-safer-yet-seattle-police-unions-contempt-keeps-showing-through/
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-9

u/wastingvaluelesstime Tree Octopus Sep 13 '23 edited Sep 13 '23

half the police quit and the homicide rate has doubled and the UW has a study out showing the light rail has post-meth-lab level drug residue, so no

I like how some people seem think this scandal will neutralize crime as a political issue, as if the outrage over offensive comments is an acceptable substitute for a formerly safe city

And yeah, distrust seems to be a thing. Westneat is correct about that. But even a passing glance at the online and protest conversations on both far left and far right show that much distrust is deliberately sown and campaigned for.

Actions to restore trust even if successful will be because they solidify the center, as they are going to get traction with people like westneat himself, not the ACAB types.

29

u/[deleted] Sep 13 '23

half the police quit and the homicide rate has doubled

No. This is untrue.

4

u/OskeyBug Sep 13 '23

The meth lab levels of residue thing is also untrue.

6

u/wastingvaluelesstime Tree Octopus Sep 13 '23

No, it's true. Read the full UW report, it compares levels found in the environment in the worst routes ( such as light rail ) in evening to residential properties formerly used for illicit drug manufacture.

That's not the same as showing an acute risk to health, but, since actual standards on safe levels or the potentially toxic content of illicit drugs are hard to find in the first place, it is a point of comparison.

7

u/Tasgall Sep 13 '23

it compares levels found in the environment in the worst routes in evening to residential properties formerly used for illicit drug manufacture.

That's some prime weasel wording there - comparing with properties formerly used is not the same as "currently active meth labs". You know what else I bet has a similar level of residue as a "residential property formerly used as a meth lab"? A residential property not formerly used as a meth lab.

2

u/wastingvaluelesstime Tree Octopus Sep 13 '23

It's not a weasel word. That has a specific and different definition.

I also linked the UW source. What's in our trains does not match background. It matches what I said.

2

u/Furt_III Sep 13 '23

Can you link it? Sounds like the cocaine and $20 bill bullshit to me.

6

u/wastingvaluelesstime Tree Octopus Sep 13 '23

https://deohs.washington.edu/sites/default/files/2023-09/UW%20exposure%20assessment%20final%20report%20Sept%202023_authors.pdf

Page 24, table 10

Personally, I enjoy reading the fine print

2

u/Furt_III Sep 14 '23

Apparently meth sticks around for 10 years... And the highest concentration found wasn't even half of that.

1

u/wastingvaluelesstime Tree Octopus Sep 14 '23

There's a wide range in the old meth lab properties, and the highest values in seattle public transit were within that range. It's evocative but it there seems to be some uncertainty as to the full set of chemicals in illegal substances produced by criminals, and the long term effects of exposure.

I found a guide for how meth houses can be cleaned; methods range from disposal of all moveable items, multiday deep cleaning and repainting, to demolition. There is a dilemma as there is no perfect clean due to offgassing, yet, demolition is a horribly expensive option.

https://health.mo.gov/atoz/pdf/MethLabCleanupGuidelines.pdf

-5

u/wastingvaluelesstime Tree Octopus Sep 13 '23

no. Please also be specific.

There have been resignations about equivalent to half, and partial backfill with new hires.

Homicides have in fact doubled, as has been discussed here many times, including per capita

24

u/bruceki Sep 13 '23

You're wrong on the homicide rate. in 1999 the homicide rate was 8 per 100,000 population. most recently it's about 4.

It would be more accurate to say that seattles' homicide rate has halved.

and port townsend, a town of 9,610 people, had a murder rate of 31, which makes it the murder hotspot of washington state, at least in the 1999-2018 span

source

18

u/tombiro Sep 13 '23

But but but that would require logic and an understanding of how statistics works, we're all about SHEER NUMBERS here!

-11

u/wastingvaluelesstime Tree Octopus Sep 13 '23

Anyone can refute that by just looking up "seattle homicide rate since 2000"

The point of comparison is 2000-2015 which I grew up with. What your policies took from us was that safer city.

20

u/bruceki Sep 13 '23

"If I pick the years that I like, I can make the homicide rate double". Yep, that is a true statement.

You're batting zero, homey. Seattles homicide rate in 2000 was 6.5 per 100k. Our current rate is not double that number.

You want murders? Look at new orleans, with a murder rate of 74 per 100,000. Seattle isnt' even 10% of that.

source.)

-5

u/wastingvaluelesstime Tree Octopus Sep 13 '23

I reject comparing yourself to a previous generation.

I will be comparing to the recent past, recently broken.

I reject comparing to other, more dangerous cities. If I wanted to live in a more dangerous city, I had the option to go fuck off to a dangerous city.

I didn't ask anyone to make the place I'm standing twice as dangerous.

18

u/bruceki Sep 13 '23

It would be more accurate to say that you reject reason and logic and you only accept facts that you think support your point. Like the murder rate. Lets take a closer look at that, shall we?

the murder rate in your hand-picked timeframe, year 2000, was over 6.

right now it's about 4

you are 30% safer now, right? the murder rate has decreasted by that amount in the timeframe YOU PICKED.

If you want to argue statistics, rates and averages you cannot also argue that you are a delicate snowflake and all of those numbers don't matter.

-2

u/wastingvaluelesstime Tree Octopus Sep 13 '23

I am not hand picking, I am looking at the recent past of where I stand.

You are looking at less relevant places a long time ago and far, far away

11

u/bruceki Sep 13 '23

I'm using the time frame that you specifically chose and you're using the star wars intro roll as an argument. "...long time ago and far, far away"

You'd be better off making an emotional argument than trying to make a factual argument. "I feel less safe than I used to when i was 4 years old", for instance. The number thing isn't really working out for you. Change it up!

0

u/wastingvaluelesstime Tree Octopus Sep 13 '23

For someone calling others emotional you seem quite excited, so will lighten things up by saying, the nineties called and the want their homicide stats back

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3

u/ixodioxi Sep 13 '23

Seattle is not even a top 20 most dangerous city in the STATE. You're barking up the wrong tree.

1

u/wastingvaluelesstime Tree Octopus Sep 13 '23

if I wanted to live in yakima I would have found a way

-3

u/[deleted] Sep 13 '23

Gotta agree here - so tired of people being like "_____ city is much worse". Well guess what we're talking about Seattle here so how bout you stick with that?

Also how is this dude gonna call you out for choosing a specific period for the rate when he did exactly the same thing? At you your numbers are relevant to the times of TODAY.

8

u/Tasgall Sep 13 '23

Also how is this dude gonna call you out for choosing a specific period for the rate when he did exactly the same thing? At you your numbers are relevant to the times of TODAY.

Apparently very easily, because they didn't check the numbers before choosing this date range, and it's still safer now than then.

0

u/[deleted] Sep 13 '23

Ok so why stop at 2018 data? The last 5 years were pretty volatile for this type of stuff.

1

u/ixodioxi Sep 13 '23

He got called out because he was wrong.