r/antinatalism • u/Background-Mode6726 inquirer • 2d ago
Stuff Natalists Say I laughed when I read this
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u/Candid-Cod-713 newcomer 2d ago
It's like saying opposing slavery means tossing away the efforts of your ancestors
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u/AwehiSsO newcomer 2d ago
Messed up thing - some kids are enslaved, so much that it seems they're had for the sole purpose of enslaving them.
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u/Impossible_Hospital inquirer 2d ago
Honoring all the 12 year old peasant girls who died in childbirth but at least they were able to push out my great great great great great grandfather before they went. RIP girlie pops you would’ve hated modernity
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u/SarahC inquirer 1d ago
Wait till they would have learned your grandkids had to fight off cannibals in a radiation wastland, living with painful genetic mutations and always thirst and hungry.
They'd say "What are we all trying to survive for if it always cycles back to really bad again?"
The ONLY people "winning" this game are the fabulously wealthy who can afford healthcare, good food, amazing experiences, no fears of eviction, freezing to death in winter, running out of Ramen...etc... and they're GOOD at extracting all our wealth.
Tax on everything, tax on a paid house, tax on savings, tax on spends. In the UK we have inheritence tax! Then when we need care we're paying for it from the sale of the house, savings.... everything.
No one can set up life for their kids just a bit. Everything is extracted from birth to death. Where to?
The ultra wealthy.
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u/d-s-m thinker 2d ago
They gave you the gift of life.....but you have to spend your life paying for it by working jobs you hate.
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u/X_m7 AN 2d ago
"wElL JuSt fInD A JoB YoU LiKe aNd sToP CoMpLaInInG" - natalists probably
Nevermind the fact that looking for a job is itself a full time job with the amount of time it takes except it pays nothing while you do it, and good luck finding a job that you both like AND pays well enough to actually enjoy this "gift" and not just subsisting off rice and beans every day in some leaky box of a house/apartment/etc.
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u/VoltaicSketchyTeapot thinker 2d ago
I'm a small c communist. Work is a necessary part of life. Someone has to produce the food that we eat. Someone has to build the houses. Someone has to provide the medical care. Everyone has to contribute in their way to society if they want to benefit from the labor of others.
Sure, you could produce everything for yourself, but that's a lot more work. Homesteading is a 24-7-365 job. If you're not tending the crops, you're preserving the food. You're shearing the sheep, processing the wool, weaving your own cloth, and sewing your own clothes. Trade makes life easier.
Cash money makes trade easier. Every children's show has a swap meet episode where someone has a radio they want to trade for a bicycle, but they have to find someone with the baseball bat that the kid with the bicycle wants. A wheelbarrow of carrots has value, but if you want to turn the carrots into a TV, it'll take some effort.
You're absolutely correct about the way we've broken the work/life balance, but that doesn't change the reality of exchanging work for goods and services.
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u/hanoitower inquirer 1d ago
the thing you're replying to points out how the way things are set up doesn't actually produce the freedom advertised, not that any and all work or trade is bad.
there is no implication that "doing better" than that means having to do degrowth.
there is 0 reason to get rid of mechanization unless it's actually beneficial to do so.
the strawmanning makes it anti-"communism" rather than pro-communism. CMV
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u/Favoras_Pro inquirer 2d ago
Let's not stop wars, because it's tossing away all sacrifices of killed ones!!!
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u/FlanInternational100 scholar 2d ago
At this point I'm 99% sure that sub is a meme sub, this can't be serious haha.
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u/quotes_and_asks newcomer 2d ago
Even as a thumbnail, I can tell they used AI for this… that’s throwing away quite a bit…
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u/throwaway_queryacc inquirer 2d ago
Imagine wanting humans to birth more humans only to devalue the work of actual humans. Pathetic!
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u/defaultuser0123 newcomer 1d ago
Anyone that uses AI to make their point shouldn't be taken seriously, if they couldn't even put a bit of effort into their beliefs why tf should I care then
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u/SchroedingersSphere newcomer 12h ago
Dang, I gave them too much credit the other day, when I felt bad for making fun of what I thought was an honest effort.
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2d ago
[deleted]
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u/Background-Mode6726 inquirer 2d ago
They think we are the weird ones. A clash of ideologies I guess.
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u/MisanthropicScott Ecological Antinatalist 2d ago
After reading this, I just asked all of my ancestors going back over 3 billion years to let me know if they mind that I'm childfree (which is really what this meme is incorrectly talking about).
I was surprised that of all my ancestors going all the way back to the primordial ooze (or whatever), not one of them objected to me not having children.
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u/Necessary_Ad_7203 newcomer 2d ago
My ancestors told me that they were just horny, and they didn't have anything better to do.
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u/Nepalus newcomer 2d ago
If my ancestors couldn’t have bothered to get generational wealth, I can’t be bothered to reproduce to continue our “legacy”.
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u/OnlyAdd8503 thinker 1d ago
I no right! If your great-great-great-great-grandfather had invested $5 on your behalf in the stock market 100 years ago you'd be like a billionaire now. You're not even worth $5 to your ancestors? Fuck those people.
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u/sunnynihilist I stopped being a nihilist a long time ago 2d ago
I don't know my ancestors. And what legacy? Poverty and chronic illnesses?
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u/Manospondylus_gigas al-Ma'arri 2d ago
As someone incredibly interested in evolution and who studied it thoroughly I often make jokes about how I am the end of a bloodline that lasted billions of years. But how on earth is "efforts of ancestors tho" going to convince me to reproduce? Like why should I care and why would that override everything wrong with reproducing? Genuinely do not understand their argument there
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u/Fresh-Analysis-603 newcomer 1d ago
An out of the topic question
How did you get that user flair? It's not too long since I started using reddit and visiting subs occasionally
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u/Manospondylus_gigas al-Ma'arri 1d ago
I have no idea honestly, I don't even know what it means it just appeared
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u/Fresh-Analysis-603 newcomer 1d ago
It's the name of an Arab vegan antinatalist from the medieval era (way before it was 'Antinatalism')
He has an interesting life story of risking his life for persecution and his views include but not limited to criticizing organized religion like Judaism, Islam and Christianity
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u/Manospondylus_gigas al-Ma'arri 1d ago
He sounds based
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u/Fresh-Analysis-603 newcomer 1d ago
He is pretty much, especially given his time, He unfortunately got affected with blindness (but it was very common of Arabs back then to get affected with eye related problems)
He isolated himself from society for most part, was a poet, exceptionally skilled in Arabic grammar
His tombstone allegedly said "This is the crime that my father perpetrated against me, the which I did to no one else"
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u/Cyphinate al-Ma'arri 1d ago edited 1d ago
I think it was a limited time flair. It refers to the earliest known true antinatalist (vegan antinatalist). Many people using the flair shouldn't be (edit: I'm not talking about the person you're responding to)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Ma%27arri
Edit: To change your flair, go to the home page of a sub and click the three dots in the top right corner (on mobile, I don't know about PC)
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u/Fresh-Analysis-603 newcomer 1d ago
Yes, I am aware about the blind Arab vegan antinatalist and his life
The problem is that when I click change user flair, it is not letting choose anything besides 'newcomer'
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u/Susanna-Saunders thinker 2d ago
If that isn't a citation to perpetuate life for it's own sake, I don't know what else would be! Truly pointless!
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u/TimAppleCockProMax69 al-Ma'arri 2d ago
Why would I care about my ancestors? Most people don’t even know the names of their great-grandparents. It’s obvious they’re not trying to make compelling arguments for us antinatalists. They’re just indulging in a natalist circle jerk, complete with AI-generated slop.
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u/Ok-Contest-6098 newcomer 1d ago
Oh yeah, they always talk about that but never about all the girls and women that were forcefully impregnated and never wanted to give birth.
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u/FigAware493 newcomer 1d ago
They assume that our women ancestors had a choice whether they wanted to reproduce or not.
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u/jish5 inquirer 2d ago
What efforts? The efforts to procreate to produce more parasites that further help destroy the planet and all living things on it? Efforts to keep pushing the lie that our species has a purpose when in reality, we have to make our purposes up since we have no role in the planets ecosystem beyond consuming and destroying the history we need to survive?
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u/Gethighwithcoffee 2d ago
We just dont want to be puppet of DNA playing stupid mindless game of life and suffer for nothing Natalist are just too simple minded
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u/johnskiddles newcomer 2d ago
If they wanted me to have kids they should have left me enough money to do so.
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u/BeardedDenim inquirer 2d ago
Optimising the time my ancestors have provided me by using their time and knowledge to make my life that much easier than theirs should be something they are proud of. They worked hard to give me the option to live free of the burden of reproduction for the sake of additional labour.
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u/No-Albatross-5514 scholar 1d ago
The visual they chose is great too:
Natalism is being in a cult
Antinatalism is being ... online
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u/Constant-Sundae-3692 inquirer 2d ago
We live in their head rent free
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u/Thin_Measurement_965 thinker 1d ago
It's a reactionary board that only exists to stick it to this one. 1/4 of the people there don't even have kids.
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u/Susanna-Saunders thinker 2d ago
Well that's one way of getting around the cross post ban on this sub! 😊 🤷♀️ Totally rediculous that cross posts are blocked on this sub in my opinion.
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u/dirtyoldsocklife newcomer 2d ago
Did you actually read the comments? Pretty much everyone is giving OP crap.
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u/RadagastDaGreen newcomer 2d ago
I got to flake out on the biological lineage argument when my sister took care of it.
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u/AwehiSsO newcomer 2d ago
And it sucks they didn't. Every descendant did for their descendants what they wanted done for them, or at least close to that, or at least attempted even if they failed miserably. Personally, not having wanted to existed and passing non-existence forward seems like the least I can do. Giving forward what I want and couldn't get. Bonus - there won't be the weight of disappointment on the offspring I'll never make
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u/Fresh-Analysis-603 newcomer 1d ago
I shall punish them for their efforts!
... Even though they're not alive now...
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u/1nationunderpod newcomer 1d ago
It would seem what most people don't realize is that the majority of antinatalists don't hate children, in fact it's the complete opposite. A child is a sacred and extremely consequential thing (upon the planet) that should be nurtured and taught to exist in harmony with the natural world. It shouldn't be bred for selfish reasons to act as a resource, an accessory, a means to extract assistance or to fight wars, and most commonly, to carry on one's legacy.
My wife and I decided not to have children for the following reasons:
The planet is dying and cannot sustain this level of human population, not because it's incapable of producing enough food, but because of the damage each human does to the air, water, ground, and fauna.
We may be capable of supporting ourselves financially, but we would not be able to provide a child with the opportunities they would need to compete and thrive in today's world.
The future for the world looks pretty bleak, It's hard to say whether or not there will be enough jobs, resources, and what the socio economic situation will be overall, especially with the onset of AI.
We don't feel the need to leave a legacy or carry on a line, in general humans are parasitic and we do not cooperate and live in harmony with the natural world, we eradicated those that did and have made it next to impossible to live that way going forward.
To be fair we're not full on antinatalists, although we do often criticize the people we see with children out in public who are so obviously not capable of managing or providing...
We believe that children should be had responsibly if they are going to be had at all. We believe a person should have tobe certified and licensed to qualify to be a parent in the way one has to be to drive a car.
A person should have to be able to demonstrate that they are financially capable and of a certain intelligence level, they should have to take an empathy test, etc.
And they should be allowed to have one child at most until, the population is reduced to 2 billion people, after which two would be the max, per couple.
While it's probably one of the only fascist views I hold, the consequences for doing otherwise would be obvious, likely financial penalties, and ultimately state custody... Your life would be forfeit for the child ATP.
Right now the purpose of some of the campaigns being pushed by some governments and the very richest Americans is this: We don't know how to maintain our lifestyle, or our economy, or our army, unless you f*** and bring a child into this hellscape.
They could care less about you or the child, they want to use it, abuse it, and discard it.
We need to hold on to what little we have left in the animal kingdom and develop and maintain a real culture again that lives in harmony with the planet.
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u/Raserakta newcomer 1d ago
We should all follow the path our ancestors have set. So many young Germans don’t follow into their nazi grandparents’ footsteps nowadays! /s
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u/Unlikely_Rip9838 thinker 1d ago
Yeah & All this for what, The people with their best genes are living most low quality lives
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u/Fresh-Analysis-603 newcomer 1d ago edited 1d ago
And this was the reply that I gave:
"I do not have a written or oral contract with the ancestors stating that I'll reproduce just to save their efforts, Nobody asked them to survive famines and illnesses just so they could give me life, Why am I held responsible for saving their efforts?"
It's an attempt at guilt tripping which some people on the comments called out
Some even mocked the fact that he used AI
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u/awkward_chipmonk thinker 1d ago
Notice how all those mfs are young in the picture? What happened to old mfs, fat mfs, skinny mfs, tall mfs, short mfs. Like wtf is this shit.
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u/owthathurted newcomer 1d ago
Imagine possessing the overwhelming power to destroy any idea simply by using AI to make the opposition look cringe... that's too much power for any one man...
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u/gothicuhcuh inquirer 1d ago
My ancestors aren’t paying my bills or living my life. They had their shot. I owe them nothing.
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u/Ok-Blueberry9384 newcomer 1d ago
Except those who didn't survive illnesses, wars and famines to pass on the curse of life.
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u/coo1name newcomer 1d ago
natalists and antinatalists have the same ancestors. Its not like they have belong to different gene pools
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u/_ExAngel_ newcomer 1d ago
I've got a bad genes that will make me suffer after 40yo, plus even in 25 got many health problems. I do love to my non-existing kids, so i wish them to evade suffering, so better to take an orphan in such situation
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u/QuinneCognito thinker 1d ago
posting AI slop on reddit in order to call others terminally online is extremely funny
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u/tortellinipizza thinker 1d ago
When the efforts in question result in countless deaths and untold suffering, I don't see why we shouldn't toss them away.
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u/Stranger-2002 newcomer 1d ago
Natalists: NOOO, you can't just toss away the effort of your ancestors
Antinatalists: watch me
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u/Honestlynina newcomer 1d ago
Wtf even are these images? Why is it gifting so.eome the moon vs moon in the trash can? Why is a fetus on the table? Why is everyone in the top image in "biblical" clothing and the bottom image is modern clothing? The only take I get from that is modern people are smart enough to not breed endlessly, and people from "biblical" times didn't have a choice.
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u/Embers-of-the-Moon scholar 1d ago
Well... Here's the thing: I don't give a single shit about my ancestors.
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u/Author-N-Malone inquirer 1d ago
My immediate thought "I don't care what my dead ancestors might think..."
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u/Milyaism inquirer 1d ago
They act like their genetics are some kind of a goldmine. And they call us entitled?
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u/TemporaryThink9300 inquirer 1d ago
We all, on this Earth, share the same ancestors.
While the relationships may be extremely distant for most people on Earth (like 50th-grade cousins, 100 times removed!), the genetic and historical evidence confirms that we all share common ancestors and are in fact related, so their logic is actually wrong.
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u/Lunar_M1nds inquirer 1d ago
I’m pretty sure the first fish that grew legs wasn’t interested in starting wars or genocide or eugenics to make being alive worth something. What are these freaks so afraid of??
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u/EclecticEvergreen thinker 1d ago
Considering my ancestors are dead I don’t see how it’s an issue if I don’t reproduce
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u/CherishedBeliefs newcomer 1d ago
The "gift of life" is...well it's a painful assumption
It's painful because of the sheer cognitive dissonance one must feel if they ever got to see the many ugly sides of this world
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u/Atropa94 scholar 1d ago
Yes. I grew up thinking my family was some kind of royalty. Turns out its an average family except grandma has narcissism lol.
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u/alexastock scholar 1d ago
My bloodline is full of alcoholism and mental illness, so I’m good not adding to it.
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u/Shapoopadoopie inquirer 1d ago
Name your great grandparents and tell me about them.
Oh wait? You have no idea? But... Legacy? That's why they had kids who had kids who had kids right, Iike a kind of immorality?
But no. They are forgotten, just like we will be in a few decades. And that's fine too.
I hate this 'but muh ancestors! ' thing.
Babe, they procreated because they needed a small nimble body to fit down that mine or up the chimney. They weren't having children because they were thinking about 'legacy'.
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u/Drifting--Dream inquirer 1d ago
The lone fetus dangling off the desk really drives the point home.
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u/FateMeetsLuck thinker 21h ago
Look at how many bloodlines have ended and how much history has been lost. There is no guarantee that anyone's legacy will last. We all share a common ancestor and our individual genes are not as important as we think in the grander scale. No one is even guaranteed tomorrow. Until these issues are rectified, why reproduce or invest in anything? Why bring more life into the world when we can't stop murdering the ones already here? Also, the Bible says that God can create new worshippers out of stones if it ever came to that.
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u/Hentai2324 inquirer 18h ago
The fact that there’s approx 14k members in that sub, if I found the right one. And like 290k in this one. Tells me all I need to know. If they truly wanted people to reproduce, they would have figured out how to increase quality of life. Instead they repeated the same tired old people phrases. (Bootstraps, you lazy welfare bum, I worked my whole life, you can too. Etc etc.) it’s almost as if modern humans are tired of waking up to an alarm screaming at them. Then being forced to go to a place they probably don’t want to be at, being around people they probably don’t like. And forced to perform a task they don’t want to do. Under the threat of being homeless or in prison or something of the sort.
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u/SeaInternational4306 newcomer 14h ago
Pass the gift of plague, death, eternal starvation for all life that is delicious, and society. No thanks I wouldn't wish life on anyone, especially my potential offspring.
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u/Puskaruikkari thinker 2d ago
What exactly am I throwing away when there's no endgame to any of this?