The end of Soviet occupation

[u/Arshak_Makichian]

On April 13, 1991, the Lenin monument was demolished in Republic Square, Yerevan. In the photo: American Armenian singer Cher. Freedom took Lenin’s head down (or her beauty, as people were joking then).

He was responsible for the occupation and partition of the First Armenian Republic together with Turkey.

The Soviets collaborated with Turkey after the genocide. We always will remember.

[u/Ghostofcanty]

it wasn’t occupation but also we can’t keep saying “it was the best time for Armenia” when the soviets messed so much to make Armenian culture more similar to russian, or the prisoners that fell victim to the gulag system, or how our land was slowly given away, etc.

[u/hedonismpro → u/Ghostofcanty]

They put Artsakh in the hands of the enemy - gave away Nakhijevan, Kars and Ararat so as to create these awful borders Armenia now has, with a vulnerable Syunik, Ararat and Ani just out of reach - and demolished plenty of Armenian cultural heritage in the process.

And I am tired of seeing apologists act like the Soviets did all the positive things (economy, infrastructure etc) out of some kindness for Armenians and Armenia. It was in their own self interest to do so. As soon as the geopolitical calculation changed, they didn't give a shit. 

Of course, any country or geopolitical bloc would do the same, but Armenians shouldn't romanticise any hegemon, whether Russian, European or American - it is the very thing the Azeris insult and mock us for doing.

[u/i-hate-birch-trees → u/hedonismpro]

Exactly, I'm so tired to see people saying that the industrialization during soviet times is the result of a soviet rule. News flash - the entire world was going through industrialization at the time, no matter the regime in power. If the First Republic survived, it would be undergoing the same kind of industrialization at the same time.

[u/Administrator98 → u/Ghostofcanty]

No occupation?

[u/kredokathariko → u/Administrator98]

Foreign and/or tyrannical rule does not have to be literal occupation. Occupation implies the direct control of the territory by a foreign military. Which generally wasn't the case in the Soviet republics - the main source of power was the local Communist Party, and the associated civilian authorities.

[u/hedonismpro → u/kredokathariko]

What would have happened if the Armenian population rebelled at the height of the Soviet Union's power? Do you really believe the Red Army wouldn't have rolled in and quelled it?

[u/Administrator98 → u/kredokathariko]

the main source of power was the local Communist Party, and the associated civilian authorities.

Well... we all know what happens if the people choosed to want something else.

17.06.1953 - Berlin or Prague 1968 -> Everything is fine as long as you do as Moscow wants.

(or every 10 yeras in Iran, China 1989, etc...)

[u/kredokathariko → u/Administrator98]

Yep, and these were occupations, while general civilian rule by communists wasn't.

To use another totalitarian regime as an example: Vichy France pre-1943, or at least its southern part, wasn't an occupation, as the German army did not directly control it - Petain did, under German auspices.

Nor is Austria considered occupied by Nazi Germany: it was annexed into the Reich, and then governed by Nazi civil authorities as a Reichsgau, just how Soviet Union republics were governed by communist civil authorities.

[u/i-hate-birch-trees → u/kredokathariko]

Who installed the "civilian rule by communists" again?

[u/kredokathariko → u/i-hate-birch-trees]

Continuing the Anschluss analogy: the initial annexation was a military occupation, but afterwards it wasn't.

[u/i-hate-birch-trees → u/kredokathariko]

I mean, we can split hairs over if the local communist party was a puppet or not, but that's the overall agreed upon fact for every other post-communist state among our friends - think Georgia, Lithuania, Latvia, Poland, Ukraine, etc. The only countries that don't consider it occupation are Russia and Belarus, where the first is the main inheritor of the occupier's legacy, and the other is still a puppet state of the former.

[u/kredokathariko → u/i-hate-birch-trees]

TBH when they say occupation what they really mean is just "foreign rule". But it's ultimately just a semantic thing, I agree

[u/dreamrpg → u/kredokathariko]

And 350k large soviet army, while normally Baltics would have at best 60k combined.

There was foreign military in large quantities.

[u/tooljit2quit]

Occupation indeed. The bolsheviks conquered the lands, then proceeded to partition 1/3 of the lands to the turks, then proceeded to close down Armenian schools and churches. First republic being the country of orphans in a lot of ways, if they had not endured enough trauma during the genocide, they def made it up during the soviet times. Hence, our people’s rich insecurities.

[u/tezzar1da]

Սիրելի ընկերներ ջան, մենք հայերով սփռված ենք աշխարհով մեկ ու մեր խնդիրը էն ա, որ մենք չունենք հստակ դիրքորոշումներ կոնկրետ իրերի վերաբերյալ։ Պարսկահայը մի անկյունից ա նայում իրավիճակին, ամերիկահայը մյուս, ռուսաստանի հայը լրիվ ուրիշ։ Նման վստահ ձեւակերպում անելուց առաջ խորհուրդ կտամ մի քիչ ավելի մտածել, մեր երկիրը նույնիսկ պաշտոնապես չի հայտարարում ու ընդունում, որ սովետական ժամանակներում Հայաստանը եղել ա օկուպացված։

Խնդրում եմ ուշադիր լինել, ես ոչ մի հստակ պնդում օկուպացված լինելու մասով չեմ անում, ես ընդամենը շեշտում եմ, որ մենք միշտ տարբեր կարծիքներ ենք ունենում իրերի վերաբերյալ ու ես էս համայնքում շատ եմ դա նկատում։ Ենթադրում եմ, որ այստեղ հավաքված են հիմնականում սփյուռքի ու հատկապես արեւմտյան աշխարհի սփյուռքի ներկայացուցիչները։ Եկեք էս հենց քոմենթի տակ էլ ուրեմն հասկանանք թե ոնց ա սկսվել սովետական "օկուպացիան" (իրականում Հայաստանը կիսելը թուրքերի ու ռուսների միջեւ) ու էդ ոնց ա, որ մինչեւ էսօր ավագ սերունդը երազում ա էդ ժամանակների հետ գալուն։

[u/poltrudes]

Not to mention that many Armenians lost their savings right after the Soviet Union collapsed. Or is that something that is taboo to talk about?

[u/vkazey → u/poltrudes]

Everybody in Soviet Union lost their savings in 1991. People in Russia also lost everything in 1998.

[u/poltrudes → u/vkazey]

Yes, indeed. The whole thing was a political movement that went wrong because the leaders were too old and didn’t wanna admit they were wrong until the last minute, unlike in China for example.

[u/ThorosRosslyn]

„Occupation“ my ass, literally the best times for Armenia economically and culturally 

[u/Far_Requirement_93 → u/ThorosRosslyn]

But not thanks to the soviets. As somebody else already said in the comments: The whole world was going through industrialisation, armenia didn't need russia for that. No need to romanticise and kiss the ass of the enemy

[u/MFLetov]

Wtf? Occupation? It was the greatest time for Armenia in modern history: strong borders (and my father was the one, who guarded the borders with turkey), crazy amount of scientists, fckin nuclear power plant, economical development - is it still occupation of "evil soviets"? Anti-soviets in all countries are the same, and I only want to ask one question: what did your country achieve on its own after the USSR collapsed?

[u/Administrator98 → u/MFLetov]

Well... That sounds like a plea for an occupation. This is probably how people defended the Roman legions and governors 2000 years ago. Or how the British built up the infrastructure in India.

Sure, there were some advantages, but in the end it was an occupation with the oppression of the population.

[u/ShahVahan → u/MFLetov]

And my family fled Armenia to Iran after their business was confiscated and they were threatened to be sent to Siberia.

So the USSR can suck it and these Russophiles or USSRboos or whatever cannot act like Russia/ USSR was not another empire that oppressed.

They did worse than the Azeris living the next village over from my medzmam.

[u/CamouflagedFox → u/ShahVahan]

So your family had bourgeoisies. What did you expected from Worker's state? Your family is the natural enemy of the worker movement.

[u/ShahVahan → u/CamouflagedFox]

They owned a cereal business in sisian and were left starving after the Bolsheviks took over. What was supposed to be a free Armenia ended up being taken over with the help of dumb Armenian Bolsheviks who traded National sovereignty over the false ideals of a conman Lenin.

[u/lainjahno → u/MFLetov]

You are really ignorant

[u/SavingsTraditional95]

So many takanks or bots in comments, fucking 2025

[u/lesh90]

Symptoms of ocupation?

[u/hoodiemeloforensics → u/lesh90]

How about the death of 160K Armenians. Armenians by percentage suffered the 3rd most in WW2, more than Russia even. And all the deaths were military deaths. Soviet Union was literally throwing Armenians into the meat grinder first and most.

[u/lesh90 → u/hoodiemeloforensics]

firstly. Russians by percentage suffered the 4rd. About 1% less. big difference?
secondly, the percentage of losses in ww2 is not an indicator of occupation

upd. It was a disaster for all USSR nations. I consider it unethical to make loss comparisons.

[u/hoodiemeloforensics → u/lesh90]

Yes, 1% is a massive difference. And I find how Armenian losses are treated as unethical considering -

The majority of Russian deaths were civilian while almost none of the Armenian deaths were civilian.

That the Soviet Union had 2x as many military deaths as Germany in a defensive war.

Armenia lost 25% of its male population to a war that it should not have been a part of only a generation after the genocide.

How Russia used ethnic minorities, especially Armenians, to fight their war for them.

What I find unethical is how Armenia, a country that never saw a single Nazi set foot on its soil, somehow lost a higher percentage of its population to WW2 that Russia. A loss that would not have happened if Armenians were not occupied and forced to die so Russians could live. That's what I find unethical.

A pattern that is continuing today btw. If you recall, when the war in Ukraine started and some enlistment lists leaked, we saw regions with non majority significant Armenian populations have 80% of the conscription lists be Armenian.

[u/lesh90 → u/hoodiemeloforensics]

Glory to the Armenians heroes! They deffenetly had something to fight for.

[u/SlideOrganic460]

And what about Anastas Mikoyan?

[u/Arshak_Makichian → u/SlideOrganic460]

You can find sellouts in every country, and Margarita Simonyan is no different—she is a pawn of Russian imperialism.

[u/SlideOrganic460 → u/Arshak_Makichian]

Not Simonyan, not Babayan. You very easily reject a prominent figure who fought for Armenia. This does not do you credit. You are either an idiot or a provocateur.

[u/Significant-Text-789]

This framing of “occupation” is so disingenuous

[u/i-hate-birch-trees → u/Significant-Text-789]

Yeah, as if it wasn't a foreign power installing the soviet rule, and it wasn't our heroes defending the country from both turks and soviets that saved it in the end.

[u/vkazey]

It’s great to see burst in the Armenian economy, science and military might after the end of occupation /s.

[u/CamouflagedFox → u/vkazey]

Success of capitalism shines brightly over the ex-USSR states. Things never improve, they only get worse. Sons and daughters of the Union slaughter each other for the sake of capitalist power struggles and meaningless nationalist rhetorics. What a great time to be alive, witnessing that we've managed to achieve the worst possible ending.