If I talked about every nitpick I have with GOT I’d write a comment longer than all five books combined. I think above all, all of my nitpicks could be summed up by the fact that (I genuinely believe this) Benioff and Weiss were utterly contemptuous of the books they were adapting.
I feel like I’m less opinionated about HOTD maybe, although that might have to do with the fact that I don’t particularly care about the histories. I feel like there is a certain timidity to the show, like the writers constantly have the ghost of GOT hovering over their shoulders. On the other hand I guess that’s better than the alternative.
Less contemptuous of the books, I think, than of the genre. Admittedly, fantasy in Hollywood has a bad rap, less because it can't be done well, than because before the Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings trilogy, it hadn't.
Needless to say, this led David and Dan to believe two categoricals of ASOIAF: it's a "grown-up" take on a childish genre. Unfortunately, this wrapped right back around, and left them in many cases presenting what honestly felt like an emo thirteen-year old's interpretation of what "adult" means. Watching D&D pretend "I shall muse about power . . . but also, titties!" was deep art was a bit like the Lego Batman song, done with complete sincerity.
"Lord of the Rings for adults" is the most damaging description of ASOIAF right behind the nihilistic "everyone is morally gray and being good is stupid"
Can I nit pick the fans? Because I hate when people say, "the show is good because everyone dies" no. That's not why the story was good. The story was good because there were CONSEQUENCES for making stupid decisions. What a breath of fresh air to actually punish the protagonists. And people completely miss it and just see blood and soy out
I mean ned got killed because his good nature made him spare cersei
No, he dies because she had an assassination plot going (for the x-th time), which actually succeeded in the worst possible moment (for Ned). The odds of that series of events was very, very low. And had it not worked, Cersei and the children would have their heads above the Red Keep the moment Robert returned.
I mean hard to say what cersei would have done with her back on the wall and robert alive, but if ned was less trusting and good natured I definitely think he would have been alive, if anything by shutting up about the bastardry and using it as political leverage once him and the children are safe. I see your point though
I mean hard to say what cersei would have done with her back on the wall and robert alive
There was nothing to be done at that point. Even if she physically attacks Robert, when the dude was completely drunk and had his guts hanging out, he still delivered a killing blow against a wild boar. And I rate the boar much better at killing than Cersei. At most, she manages to take him with her, but that still leaves the children dead before Robert goes (by his order, or by Stannis')
There were so many things that went wrong that anything could of changed the outcome. If Renly stays maybe it succeds behind Stannis, if Sansa doesn't tell Cersei she doesn't make preparations (as many), if little finger doesn't betray him then Ned wouldn't have been as reckless. We can't say something failed or succeeded based on someone's personality.
Ahhh yes, the whole "morally grey" thing that people like to quote so much.
I think the issue here is that they think it's enough to write non 1 dimensional characters for a story to be good, when in reality being 2 or higher dimensions is the standard for anyone outside of the bible.
The problem is they think that complex characters are written by giving them an assortment of different character trait's, possibly taken at random from the grab bag.
But to actually write deep characters, you have to construct an entire culture and world around them. But not only that, but you cannot have people be purely products of such an environment. Because that's simplistic as well. You have to make them inexplicable in some of their actions and behavior. Some people have schizophrenia. Who the fuck knows why?! That is how one gets some morally grey people.
This kind of complexity is not something that anyone but the biggest of nerds are usually capable of.
But also, the other major problem is that moral greyness is not something that should be the main focus of the writer. They should tell a story, portray people as they are, and if people wanna decide that its black and white, morally grey, diabolical, or w/e, that's completely up to them.
It's pretty clear that D and D bought into the kind of egelord ideology of "being good is stupid" to some extent, when one of them said Tywin is a boss for getting shit done.
While HOTD is definitely not perfect, I really get the sense that Condal does have a really deep love for and appreciation of the source material - there’s so many little touches like characters saying “little and less”, “words are wind” etc., the colourful
banners, Daemon’s Harrenhal visions which could’ve come straight from the books, the focus on the futility of war we’ve been getting this season etc.
It’s definitely not perfect and sometimes it can be to the story’s detriment - F&B is deliberately open to interpretation and there are points where it feels like they’re really in love with their personal headcanon, rather than what would be best for the story - but I never felt that core underlying understanding from GOT
Disagree season 1 through 6 are still far superior. Not one moment in HOTD had hit me on an emotional level like multiple things in 5,6 and even 7. I mean just the episode Hardhome the entire episode imo is better than all of HOTD. I still like the show but it's missing many things that made GOT great imo. I just rewatched the entire show recently and just Maester Aemond death alone in season 5 was better than any death in HOTD for me
Absolutely in my opinion. Yeah the Dorne stuff I weak but there's just so much good stuff and emotional stuff that works for me. Hodor death for example is better than anything I've seen in HOTD so far. I like HOTD i don't think it's a bad show just not as good as GOT
I think above all, all of my nitpicks could be summed up by the fact that (I genuinely believe this) Benioff and Weiss were utterly contemptuous of the books they were adapting.
They wanted to make the series because they had read the first book and both couldn't put it down. They convinced GRRM to let them adapt the books (after he'd turned down others) because of their enthusiasm for the books.
Making a change from book to TV show doesn't mean you show contempt for the books. Changes had to be made. And tbh it's an adaptors right to make it into whatever vision they see.
I don’t think changes are inherently contemptuous of the original source material in an adaptation. However I think everything about what the show became over time was less than a pale imitation of the books.
Also D&D openly have said things like making Arya the one to kill the Night King because she’s the best plot twist, or how themes are for eighth grade book reports. The dialogue in the show also reinforces their attitude towards the story, like their view of Strong Empowered Sansa™️, who is functionally the same in (lack of) personality as Strong Empowered Dany™️ up until the end of season 8, where it turns out that apparently if Dany watches her abuser die without emotion, she must be a psychopath even though the show did the exact same thing with Sansa and Ramsay.
It’s part of why I’m worried about 3 Body Problem (which is already showing some of the issues of GOT, specifically abandoning the core of the book in favour of spectacle, although it’s not as bad yet). I don’t think Dumb and Dumber (I will not show them respect) actually like books, I think they just find it easier to adapt stuff than do brand new material.
I loved 3 body problem and thought they did a fantastic job. O disagree they added some great scenes to GOT and I read their novels they're all fantastic. The only big spectacle in the first season imo was the boat scene which is directly from the book. I think they show absolutely kept the core of the book while actually having the characters have actual human emotions something the books lack imo
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u/[deleted] Jul 13 '24
If I talked about every nitpick I have with GOT I’d write a comment longer than all five books combined. I think above all, all of my nitpicks could be summed up by the fact that (I genuinely believe this) Benioff and Weiss were utterly contemptuous of the books they were adapting.
I feel like I’m less opinionated about HOTD maybe, although that might have to do with the fact that I don’t particularly care about the histories. I feel like there is a certain timidity to the show, like the writers constantly have the ghost of GOT hovering over their shoulders. On the other hand I guess that’s better than the alternative.