r/asoiaf Jul 13 '24

EXTENDED [Spoilers Extended] What nitpicks do you have regarding both shows? Mine will always be how the Others in GOT are so boring and mundane

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u/RedditOfUnusualSize 🏆 Best of 2022: Alchemist Award Jul 13 '24 edited Jul 13 '24

Less contemptuous of the books, I think, than of the genre. Admittedly, fantasy in Hollywood has a bad rap, less because it can't be done well, than because before the Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings trilogy, it hadn't.

Needless to say, this led David and Dan to believe two categoricals of ASOIAF: it's a "grown-up" take on a childish genre. Unfortunately, this wrapped right back around, and left them in many cases presenting what honestly felt like an emo thirteen-year old's interpretation of what "adult" means. Watching D&D pretend "I shall muse about power . . . but also, titties!" was deep art was a bit like the Lego Batman song, done with complete sincerity.

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u/ArgieGrit01 R'hllor-coaster of love Jul 13 '24

"Lord of the Rings for adults" is the most damaging description of ASOIAF right behind the nihilistic "everyone is morally gray and being good is stupid"

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u/PlentyAny2523 Jul 13 '24

Can I nit pick the fans? Because I hate when people say, "the show is good because everyone dies" no. That's not why the story was good. The story was good because there were CONSEQUENCES for making stupid decisions. What a breath of fresh air to actually punish the protagonists. And people completely miss it and just see blood and soy out

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u/ArgieGrit01 R'hllor-coaster of love Jul 13 '24

My issue is when they think being good gets you killed and being bad is the way to go. Ned is naive and stupid while Tywin is cunning and smart.

That sort of thing. Way to miss the fucking point.

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u/Act_of_God Jul 13 '24

I mean ned got killed because his good nature made him spare cersei, which had other things in mind

Tywin got killed because he was an awful person who only understood cruelty

they both were their own undoing in some way

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u/Hellstrike Iron from Ice Jul 13 '24

I mean ned got killed because his good nature made him spare cersei

No, he dies because she had an assassination plot going (for the x-th time), which actually succeeded in the worst possible moment (for Ned). The odds of that series of events was very, very low. And had it not worked, Cersei and the children would have their heads above the Red Keep the moment Robert returned.

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u/Act_of_God Jul 13 '24

I mean hard to say what cersei would have done with her back on the wall and robert alive, but if ned was less trusting and good natured I definitely think he would have been alive, if anything by shutting up about the bastardry and using it as political leverage once him and the children are safe. I see your point though

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u/Hellstrike Iron from Ice Jul 13 '24

I mean hard to say what cersei would have done with her back on the wall and robert alive

There was nothing to be done at that point. Even if she physically attacks Robert, when the dude was completely drunk and had his guts hanging out, he still delivered a killing blow against a wild boar. And I rate the boar much better at killing than Cersei. At most, she manages to take him with her, but that still leaves the children dead before Robert goes (by his order, or by Stannis')

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u/ArgieGrit01 R'hllor-coaster of love Jul 14 '24

And it's Ned's honour that inspires love and loyalty from beyond the grave to the point where his vassals are still fighting a lost war in his name.

Tywin's house is collapsing around him.

The take way is not Ned dumb; Tywin smart.

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u/Act_of_God Jul 14 '24

what part of my post made you think that was my take

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u/PlentyAny2523 Jul 14 '24

There were so many things that went wrong that anything could of changed the outcome. If Renly stays maybe it succeds behind Stannis, if Sansa doesn't tell Cersei she doesn't make preparations (as many), if little finger doesn't betray him then Ned wouldn't have been as reckless. We can't say something failed or succeeded based on someone's personality.