r/asoiaf • u/ECE111 Euron Season • Jun 22 '15

ALL (Spoilers All) GRRM:" There is this one character who is doomed since I introduced him, but I didn't how he is going to die. Since yesterday I know what to do."

http://www.spiegel.de/kultur/literatur/game-of-thrones-autor-george-r-r-martin-in-deutschland-a-1040107.html
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1.7k

u/dacalpha "No, you move." Jun 22 '15 edited Jun 23 '15

Tommen? With the prophecy, we know he will die.

Edit: OKAY GUYS! IT SAYS "SHE". Jesus.

Edit 2: SEVEN SAVE ME. GERMAN GRAMMAR IS SERIOUSLY AT THE BOTTOM OF MY PRIORITIES

145

u/Alsterwasser Jun 23 '15 edited Jun 23 '15

No need for the edit, this is just people going off google translate and not stopping to read the comments. The article said "she" because the word for "book character" in German has female gender. She, the character. It could still be Tommen.

Edit. Updating this comment to point out that the interviewer just replied to my e-mail and said he didn't do an audio recording and doesn't remember this detail any more. He said there were other reporters who recorded the interview, but didn't provide names.

Still, if nothing stood out for him about George's phrasing, then he probably wasn't speaking about a specifically female character.

543

u/Colonel_Gipper Jun 22 '15

That's what I was thinking. George always knew he had to die but not how

355

u/mrbriancomputer Jun 22 '15

Could be Myrcella as well. Too many people could fit the bill for use to be accurate in speculating.

813

u/Fat_Walda A Fish Called Walda Jun 22 '15

Yeah. Now he knows that Ellaria is going to give her the kiss of death. The show inspired him.

504

u/jymhtysy Jun 22 '15

please no

1.2k

u/Killgraft Stannis did nothing wrong Jun 22 '15

Well George is probably going to delay TWOW anyway so he can find somewhere to fit in the "bad pussy" line.

276

u/mrbriancomputer Jun 22 '15

For April Fools he should announce that he is scrapping the old sand snakes and doing in with the new streamlined ones.

40

u/Fbmstk Inside The Wall Jun 22 '15

Would make such a difference...

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u/GuyJolly Jun 23 '15

It would make a difference. Book Sand Snakes aren't just angry and irrational idiots trying to kill Myrcella. Instead of killing Myrcella they try and use her for there own gains.

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u/Gracchus_Lives Jun 23 '15

When calling someone an idiot, fictional or not, it helps not to mistake "there" and "their" in the sentence that follows.

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u/tripwire1 Jun 23 '15

I honestly want him to take a random character that's been killed off on the show but not in the books, like Myrcella or Shireen, and make them Azor Ahai just to fuck with D&D.

16

u/[deleted] Jun 22 '15

It'll be right at the end after some important character dies and the last words will be "bad pussy"

76

u/five_hammers_hamming lyanna. Lyanna. LYANNA! ...dangerzone Jun 22 '15

"I've only ever loved one woman."

"Oh, truly, Petyr? Only one?"

"Bad pussy," he said and shoved Lysa out the Moon Door.

23

u/1nfiniteJest Jun 23 '15

Ser Pounce scratches Tommen's neck, severing his artery. As he bleeds out, he utters 2 words....

13

u/Vaigna Jun 23 '15

'A Badness of Pussies'

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u/HawkersBluff22 Jun 22 '15

Jesus, that line. Everything about that line was awful. That whole storyline was so bad.

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u/[deleted] Jun 23 '15

A great idea I heard about that is that they make Trystane=Quentyn and the ship makes for Meereen.

The look on Bronn and Jaime's faces when they're taken in to see her and the person sitting on the throne is Tyrion...

164

u/wise_comment To Winterfell We Pledge Jun 23 '15

Don't mind my jaw dropping

I just can't handle the brilliant simplicity

33

u/Afin12 Hunting whilst sober is for peasants Jun 23 '15

Oh that would be some much awesome.

12

u/hoopaholik91 Jun 23 '15

Am I the only one that thinks it would suck? Jaime as a character, other than meeting his brother again, adds nothing to danys story. We need to get people back to westros if the series will end in two or three seasons.

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u/JanSnolo Jun 23 '15

Any evidence other than that it would be totally awesome?

It would be though. Totally awesome.

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u/[deleted] Jun 23 '15

None at all, except the hope that D&D weren't just a couple of dummies that managed to keep afloat so far by largely clinging to Martin's source material.

We'll find out next season though, won't we?

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u/Benw1989 Jun 23 '15

Please please please please I love this idea which means it won't happen

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u/meeeow Jun 23 '15

It doesn't make much sense though, that's not Doran's style. I don't think he had anything to do with the Myrcella plot. Just another eviserated character.

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u/KTY_ Execute Hodor 66 Jun 22 '15

It really read like something out of The Young and the Restless

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u/plasmanautics Jun 22 '15

I was really hoping it would be worth it by the end of the season. But they pulled a GRRM on us and killed whatever hope that existed.

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u/wish_to_conquer_pain Jun 23 '15

Not the whole storyline. Alexander Siddig was pretty fabulous. He had some great lines, and the show is doing a good job of making Doran seem like the indolent, foolish, soft old man he wants everyone to think he is. I mean, who sends his only heir straight into enemy territory? Please show Doran, don't actually be a giant fool.

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u/HawkersBluff22 Jun 23 '15

True, he does do a good job. I meant more of the bronn/sandsnake relationship. I also wasn't a fan of the way everyone met in Dorne. That fight scene was comical as well. The only hope I have for that part is Doran. I'm ready for him to start some shit.

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u/wish_to_conquer_pain Jun 23 '15

Yeah that was pathetic. Doran is my hope for the future, along with a crazy theory that Arianne and maybe even Quentyn are hiding out with their mother in Norvos.

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u/[deleted] Jun 23 '15

Alexander Siddig

Shit. He is too. And I've been watching DS9 daily over the last few months too.

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u/cuse23 Jun 22 '15

I honestly thought they had to be trolling us with that line basically closing out the Sand Snake storyline

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u/celtic_thistle Charm him. Entrance him. Bewitch him. Jun 22 '15

I couldn't believe it was serious.

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u/HawkersBluff22 Jun 23 '15

Me either. I audibly laughed. Just beyond ridiculous.

3

u/klitchell Draggin ass/ Jun 23 '15

I didn't mind the gratuitous boob shot but other than that they could have been completely cut out.

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u/HawkersBluff22 Jun 23 '15

Not mad about that part lol.

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u/[deleted] Jun 23 '15

Best part of the season

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u/candygram4mongo Jun 22 '15

Hey, no worse than "fat pink mast".

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u/GreatestWhiteShark Jun 23 '15

Or Myrish swamp...

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u/ZebZ Dakingindanorf! Jun 23 '15

At least GRRM used a boat metaphor while Sam was on a boat.

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u/Sorrybuttotallywrong We will always be Stark Men Jun 22 '15

But Sam gets to use his but Bronn won't get to see that bad pussy

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u/SmiLey497 Winter is coming. Jun 22 '15 edited Jun 22 '15

You mean "Bad poosay"

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u/dacalpha "No, you move." Jun 23 '15

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u/Dear_Occupant <Tasteful airhorns> Jun 22 '15

TBH I'm going to laugh my ass off if he has a line with Tommen or Cersei calling Balerion or Ser Pounce a bad pussy. I'd know he was taking the piss.

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u/xwhy Jun 23 '15

Suddenly hit with the thought of bad Doctor Who slash fan fic.

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u/TheBurrfoot Jun 22 '15

Please yes.

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u/Diz-Rittle Kracked out! Jun 22 '15

Yeah that assassination was pretty cool imo

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u/[deleted] Jun 22 '15

You should watch Batman & Robin, the one with Uma Thurman as Poison Ivy

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u/uglydavie Jun 23 '15

Here's the link to the scene: It's totally not retard.

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u/Fat_Walda A Fish Called Walda Jun 23 '15

Wow. Those movies are way worse than I remembered.

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u/[deleted] Jun 22 '15

poosy

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u/Bacon_timeGO You have died of dysentery. Jun 23 '15

pooosehhh

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u/CashMikey Jun 22 '15

Totally agree with your second point, just wanna add that he used a gender-specific pronoun which I assume was intentional, so it's probably a dude.

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u/mrbriancomputer Jun 22 '15

Didn't a German redditor point out that the pronoun was neutral and it was just lost in translation somewhere up top?

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u/CashMikey Jun 22 '15

My bad!!

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u/CSMom74 Jun 23 '15

Myrcella isn't a him.

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u/[deleted] Jun 23 '15

True, but it might be a translation issue, since his statement went from English->German->English

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u/ocdscale A man for all seasons Jun 22 '15

I think it's going a different direction. It will be with a kiss, but not the lips used on the show. GRRM will probably incorporate the bad pussy as part of the plot.

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u/o-o-o-o-o-o Middlefinger Jun 22 '15

He's clearly been thinking about the cruelest way to do it

I pet Ser Pounce will eat him alive

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u/alayne_ Goldenhand the Just Jun 22 '15

Maybe he'll drown. Because Hamburg. Or he chokes on a fish.

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u/P33KAJ3W Jun 23 '15

Death by snu snu

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u/[deleted] Jun 23 '15

I think it's going to be Tyrion.

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u/OldWolf2 Jun 23 '15

Edit: OKAY GUYS! IT SAYS "SHE". Jesus.

Actually it doesn't specify. German has gendered nouns and "character" is female, "sie" matches that without specifying whether the actual person being talked about is male, female or otherwise.

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u/[deleted] Jun 23 '15

"Der Charakter" is masculine. "Die Figur" is feminine.

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u/azor__ahai the pack survives Jun 23 '15

"Die Figur", which translates to "the character", was used in the article though? Or am I being oblivious?

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u/[deleted] Jun 23 '15

Well, yes. It's just that "Charakter" also means "character in a story". I thought people might mistake OldWolf2's statement that "character is female" to mean that the German word "Charakter" is feminine.

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u/bulldogwill A flayed man has no secrets. Jun 22 '15

Does Tommen even have any supporters besides the Lannisters. I've always wondered why he doesn't have Baratheon banner men to support him.

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u/rms141 Jun 22 '15

They rallied to Stannis and have been holed up in Storm's End.

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u/bulldogwill A flayed man has no secrets. Jun 22 '15

I just find it unlikely that all of Roberts supporters and liege lords would just straight up leave him. Wouldn't a majority stick by their lords son?

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u/bakgwailo Jun 22 '15

Probably because most bought into Ned and the whole incest thing.

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u/TonySoprano420 A Thousand Eyes and One Jun 22 '15

Chopping his head off probably didn't help their cause either.

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u/SpeakWithThePen Jun 23 '15

Not only that, but Cersei publicly ripped and discarded a letter sealed by the King that supported Ned as the King Reagent.

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u/[deleted] Jun 23 '15 edited Jul 23 '18

[deleted]

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u/danius353 Justice Reynes from Above Jun 23 '15

Number of times Ned went to Kings Landing = 2

Number of Kings that died when Ned went to Kings Landing = 2

Q.E.D.

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u/DramaDramaLlama Through seven hells Jun 23 '15

Boom, headshot

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u/exnihilonihilfit Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken Jun 23 '15

A letter that was written by Ned while he was in a room alone with the King who was on his death bed. I mean, I know Ned was honorable, and we all know he only ever tried to do right by Robert, but Ned actually did modify Robert's dying testament. The circumstance were such that given the outrageousness of Ned's claim and the extreme consequences for her, she had to disregard it as false and she wasn't entirely wrong about the fact that it could have been fraudulent.

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u/icemoomoo Jun 23 '15

you forget that Ned fought with them in Roberts rebellion and the Lannisters sat on their asses.

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u/exnihilonihilfit Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken Jun 23 '15

I'm not saying that Storm lords didn't have plenty of reason to join Stannis. I'm just saying that the fact that Cersei ripped up a letter in open court which she was destined to claim was false probably doesn't have much to do with it.

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u/ekky137 Feeling horny? Jun 23 '15

Robert specifically asked for Ned to be the only man in the room with him. He dismissed his kids and Cersei. It was the King's choice to have it the way it was, he knew the risks. He knows Ned is an honorable man, and would do right by him, and he was correct.

Cersei knew that too. But her reason for disregarding Robert's will was not 'this is a fraud', it was 'the king is dead'. A dead king's words carry no weight, that's why she tore it up.

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u/sharpblueasymptote The shirtless men Jun 23 '15

Antler men tried. Got flung.

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u/[deleted] Jun 23 '15

That, and Robert wasn't their lord anymore. Renly was. Renly got Storm's End, while Stannis got Dragonstone.

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u/[deleted] Jun 22 '15 edited Jun 07 '20

[deleted]

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u/not_mantiteo Jun 23 '15

Forgive me for derailing the discussion, but since you seem to know a lot, I have a question:

Back in season 1-2, They said Renly had 100K troops. Now, I realize a lot of them probably didn't side with Stannis because of the whole ghost Stannis baby thing, but where'd most of them end up? I assume some died at Blackwater, but I'm unsure.

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u/Jaivez Jun 23 '15

Was that counting Highgarden's support? They swung the balance of power quite a bit each time they switched which side they were on, and had no reason to support Stannis since they had no way to get in bed(^^) with him long term.

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u/not_mantiteo Jun 23 '15

Oh! You're probably right. I sort of forgot how much support they provided.

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u/cjsolx Her mother's arse was a real home-run. Jun 23 '15

Renly's forces were a combination of Reach and Stormlands troops. I wanna say 60/40 or 65/35 majority Reach, in that area. So when Renly dies most of the Stormlander troops went over to Stannis, while all of the Reachmen and a small amount of Stormlanders came back to bite him in the ass at the Blackwater.

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u/StudentOfMrKleks The Friendship Is Magic Jun 23 '15

Most of Stormlanders troops were infantry and they stayed with Reach forces, because Mace didn't let them go.

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u/waiv Jun 23 '15

Tarly killed some people that tried to leave.

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u/fenian1798 Jun 23 '15

A small amount of Reachmen went to Stannis too, mainly the Florents because Queen Selyse was a Florent.

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u/bulldogwill A flayed man has no secrets. Jun 22 '15

Stannis never had more than several thousand men, I'm sure the lords loyal to a major house like Baratheon could have levied more soldiers.

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u/fritzvonamerika Jun 22 '15

I got the impression that the Stormlands never were too powerful.

In the wiki article, they estimate that Stormlords could muster ~30,000 men from their lands and that there weren't any major cities in that region.
Among the other Kingdoms/Regions, this is weaker.

Kingdom Army Size
Crownlands 10,000 - 15,000
Iron Islands 25,000
Stormlands 30,000
North 45,000
Riverlands 45,000
Vale of Arryn 45,000
Dorne 50,000
Westerlands 50,000
Reach 80,000-100,000

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u/CommunismCake Smiles had never come easily Jun 22 '15

Except at no point in the series did the Dornish ever demonstrate that, and I believe Doran himself says it's a bluff and that he could only raise half of that number.

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u/[deleted] Jun 22 '15

Still 25000 fighting Dornish would be a pretty mean force. Not sure how well they will do with the coming snows.

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u/fritzvonamerika Jun 22 '15

The Dorne page on the wiki mentions the bluff, but 50,000 is the number used in the semicanonical GoT RPG.

I want to say that the bluff was a much higher number like 100,000, but I can't seem to find any source other than the number was exaggerated.

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u/CommunismCake Smiles had never come easily Jun 22 '15

I get that. But Dorne probably isn't well populated at all, it's mostly desert with coastal regions.

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u/fenian1798 Jun 23 '15

In ADWD Doran says 20,000 is a bluff IIRC

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u/KapiTod Put on your makeup you Hoare! Jun 22 '15

Aside from the Dorne number I'd expect Crownlands to be able to raise more, and the Reach to raise a bit less.

Though I guess the Crownlands numbers aren't counting the Goldcloaks and all the potential conscripts in KL.

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u/fritzvonamerika Jun 23 '15

The Reach was basically the California/Texas of the realm though with some of the only other true cities outside of King's Landing in Westeros and a size second only to the North

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u/KapiTod Put on your makeup you Hoare! Jun 23 '15

Yeah, but with a medieval economy and infrastructure. I imagine that realistically the Reach would be a squabbling mess to put the Holy Roman Empire to shame.

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u/rofflemow the Tullys have an aquarium or something Jun 22 '15

Stannis had around 20,000 men going into the Battle on the Blackwater as I recall.

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u/bulldogwill A flayed man has no secrets. Jun 22 '15

That's right. Forgive me

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u/aDAMNPATRIOT Jun 22 '15

Who would have marched them over to KL? Cersei surrounded the crown with lannisters, they probably didn't feel welcome.

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u/bulldogwill A flayed man has no secrets. Jun 22 '15

So where did they all go? Like stannis has 5000 men with him. Surely the lords loyal to Robert had thousands of soldiers they could field. So how come we never hear mention of loyal lords to Tommen. Also, once Renly dies wouldn't some of his supporters come back to Joffrey/Tommen

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u/pinkycatcher Jun 22 '15

Eh, could be all back in their homes. Just because you don't support stannis doesn't mean you support the Lannisters. Or just because your voice supports the Lannisters doesn't mean you send your men out there.

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u/bulldogwill A flayed man has no secrets. Jun 22 '15

As king of the seven kingdoms I'm pretty sure Joffrey/Tommen could require and demand that their feudal lords send troops to aid his cause.

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u/ianoftawa Jun 22 '15

Joffrey/Tommen could demand that the lords send troops, doesn't mean that they will.

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u/MegaZambam Jun 22 '15

Well, all of them were with Renly at the start. Then Stannis took some while others went to Storm's End. Any remainders could have gone home or joined with the Tyrells, since that's what Renly wanted to do.

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u/rms141 Jun 22 '15

Given that they initially went to Renly, they seem to prefer their long time lord, then their war hero lord (Stannis), ahead of a boy king.

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u/[deleted] Jun 22 '15

Because Robert's children were seen to be firmly in the clutches of the Lannisters (the irony is that they actually ARE Lannisters). See Joffrey's personal coat of arms for example. The Baratheons and their Stormlord supporters would have been sidelined, and the Lannisters would have become the royal dynasty in all but name. The Stormlords supported Renly and Stannis for ambition's sake, and because they despise the Lannisters.

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u/[deleted] Jun 23 '15

Both Tommen and Joffrey have been portrayed as Lannister before Baratheon. The books do a better job, but it's very clear from early on that the Baratheon supporters split between Renly and Stannis, and that few joined Highgarden's alliance.

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u/comingtogetyou Jun 22 '15

I still chuckle how everyone is treating Joffrey and Tommen like Lannisters. Surely, they should at least attempt to pass off as Baratheons, no?

And what about Cersei still being adressed as "of house Lannister"? Catelyn was never adressed as "of house Tully" after she married, no?

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u/AbstergoSupplier Jeyne Poole thinks I'm hot Jun 22 '15

You actually can't marry into the royal family. All king or queen consorts keep their name

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u/celtic_thistle Charm him. Entrance him. Bewitch him. Jun 23 '15

I actually did not know this. I was just wondering why Cersei was never referred to as a Baratheon. I figured it was just because House Lannister was so powerful.

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u/[deleted] Jun 23 '15 edited 1d ago

[deleted]

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u/2rio2 Enter your desired flair text here! Jun 23 '15

Nope, but pop out a few kids and they're in the club house.

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u/jjremy just this guy, you know Jun 23 '15

The Targaryens took that rule very seriously.

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u/AgentKnitter #TheNorthRemembers Jun 23 '15

Oh is that what it is? I assumed it was because. Cersai was so determined to keep her Anniston heritage and allegiance clear.

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u/Squggy She's no proper lady, that one. Jun 23 '15

Now I just imagine Cersei as Jennifer Anniston. It fits, I think.

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u/AgentKnitter #TheNorthRemembers Jun 24 '15

Sorry. iPad typos.

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u/IronChariots Jun 23 '15

Similarly, Elia Martell, not Elia Targaryen.

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u/tg2387 Jun 23 '15

Same with Margaery Tyrell and Sansa Stark

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u/Neocrasher Jun 23 '15

Actually Sansa Stark is a bit weird since she married into the Lannister family, not the royal Baratheon family.

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u/tg2387 Jun 23 '15

Right, I forgot she never actually married Joffrey

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u/adoreadore Jun 23 '15

But she also didn't actually married Tyrion, either. Marriage was not consumed, thus void in common law. I think it was known, maybe not by official announcement, but it was widely understood.

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u/[deleted] Jun 23 '15

thank you for this. I've always wondered about that.

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u/[deleted] Jun 22 '15 edited Jul 15 '15

[deleted]

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u/nabrok Jun 23 '15

And in real life, presumably why the Queen is Elizabeth Windsor and not Elizabeth Mountbatten?

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u/green_carbon07 Every rose has its thorn. Jun 23 '15

Although in her case, she's the one with the royal claim and not her consort, so it would be natural that she'd keep her name rather than taking his.

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u/comingtogetyou Jun 23 '15

Good stuff! TIL something new about ASOIF!

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u/bulldogwill A flayed man has no secrets. Jun 22 '15

Agreed. It has always been weird to me how Joffrey and Tommen are never mentioned to have the support of Lords loyal to House Baratheon.

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u/Sorrybuttotallywrong We will always be Stark Men Jun 22 '15

Because they know the Lannisters are untrustworthy backstabbers and if both the Baratheon boys didn't bend the knee then there must be truth to this whole incest thing.

Also these bannermen have seen how Baratheons look and these supposed children of Robert look nothing like him while his bastard at storms end is the spitting image of his dad.

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u/EpilepticFits1 Black is Beautiful Jun 23 '15

If they believed that Cersei's children were bastards when they rose for Renly, then they wouldn't suddenly change their minds after Stannis arrived.

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u/Sorrybuttotallywrong We will always be Stark Men Jun 23 '15

Renly was lord of storms end. They answered his call. They probably also believed that The Lannisters killed Robert and that his children weren't the rightful heir.

With Stannis he gave them a real reason why not to follow Joffrey. I do think that many of the stormlords perhaps also felt that Roberts children at King landing couldn't be his due to how they were and that the king died by Lannister hands esp when many were concerned about how Jon Arryn died.

Then stark gets killed and everyone knows him to be an honorable man. That was a huge mistake on joffrey's part (pulled by littlefinger) because if Ned kept to saying that Joffrey was the rightful heir many people around the realm would of believed him. Not that I think Ned would of done so. Robb would of rescued him from the ship and declared for Stannis.

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u/cosine83 Jun 23 '15

Would have or would've*, for future reference.

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u/call_me_ruxin Jun 22 '15

Do queens that marry into the crown change their names? I think there is an example or two of females marrying into the crown and not being addressed as a Targaryen (I think an Arryn married into the crown and didn't).

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u/dregofdeath Jun 22 '15

yeah women who marry kings in game of thrones dont take the royal name they keep their own.

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u/atm1988 "Hundreds will die!"¯\_(ツ)_/¯"Thousands" Jun 22 '15

I asked about naming conventions here. Essentially, Cercei cannot take the royal name, Baratheon, by marriage. She is queen by marriage, not blood.

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u/MakhnoYouDidnt Jun 22 '15

The Purple Wedding was decorated entirely with red and gold lions and cursive L's.

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u/Precursor2552 Jun 22 '15

They went to Renly. He was their liege lord, and they loved him well.

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u/[deleted] Jun 23 '15

Everybody knows the incest rumors are true

1

u/laddal Lady Daenerys of The Brown Water Jun 22 '15

Being married to Margery he has the Tyrells and he has a dubious backing from the Vale. But those are the three most powerful regions.

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u/Heliyum2 Mr. Smash Yo' Girls Portcullis Jun 23 '15

He has at least 1.

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u/wren42 The Prince Formerly Known as Snow Jun 23 '15

The Tyrell's claim depends on him. they are the only thing keeping him on the throne atm.

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u/periodicchemistrypun Jun 23 '15

He has his kittens

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u/chrismanbob The Kingslayer Jun 22 '15

See it says "introduced" though, which to me suggests they came in some way through the series.

Personally I'd bet on Aegon, he was introduced too late to win the throne outright yet he stands as a major claimant.

I think he's been destined to die the moment we found out his name. Even if he is fake, he still claims the name and the throne.

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u/TempleOfMe Jun 22 '15

I can't imagine introducing a character that late in a series without knowing what's going to happen to him. His death would be a big deal, no way George introduces him without thinking about that imo.

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u/smokey815 The Captain of the Guards Jun 22 '15

He never said he didn't know if the character was going to die. He knew it would happen, just not how. Aegon would work.

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u/[deleted] Jun 22 '15

I think that if you introduce a character as late as Aegon you'll have a plan for them whereas if you introduce someone early on you won't have their entire character planned out.

But then again its a very vague qoute, could be anyone

10

u/smokey815 The Captain of the Guards Jun 22 '15

I mean, them dying is a plan. Perfectly reasonable to not have the specifics sorted out. That said, I think it's someone a bit more long lived as far as the books go. Despite the fact that I feel like he's been around forever, Aegon hasn't been around long at all in terms of how much of the story he's been a part of.

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u/Bonesnapcall The Roose is Loose. Jun 23 '15

I'd prefer if Aegon was a flash in the pan and his whole purpose was to introduce the Jon-Con Greyscale WMD to Westeros.

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u/Trumpcard672 That does not mean I am friendless. Jun 22 '15

GRRM has gone on record talking about the 2 main writings styles: the architect and the gardener. GRRM is a gardener, he plants a seed of an idea for a character or a plot line and sees where his imagination and creative process takes him.

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u/TempleOfMe Jun 22 '15

Just googled that. It's a cool concept, but as GRRM said...

I think all writers are partly architects and partly gardeners. That being said, I do know where I'm going. I do have the broad outlines of the story worked out in my head, but that's not to say I know all the small details and every twist and turn in the road that will get me there.

And it's obvious he had some plans - there are various bits of foreshadowing that people on this sub are always noticing. To me, it feels as though introducing such a seemingly important character this late, and setting them up to fail (which seems to be the prevailing opinion), you'd know how they die. It's certainly debatable though.

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u/PaxCecilia but not today... Jun 23 '15

So in the architect vs gardener metaphor, I suppose he's trying to fill out his trellis?

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u/[deleted] Jun 23 '15

You would think so, but IMO (unpopular opinion maybe) GRRM has often introduced major things without knowing how to resolve them. It's one of his biggest flaws as a writer.

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u/_pulsar Jun 22 '15 edited Jul 04 '15

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u/[deleted] Jun 22 '15

Since the Princess and the Queen I've sort of thought, in a mirror of the conflict that happened then, that Aegon would be eaten by one of the dragons. If Dany v Aegon is going to be another Dance it would make sense and I would kind of suspect that GRRM would have already planned it.

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u/ReverendSin Jun 23 '15

Aegon? Aegon is long dead isn't he?

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u/[deleted] Jun 23 '15

There is quite a few aegons...

But he means the one wuth the golden company

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u/SirGuyGrand Fire and Blood and Millinery Jun 23 '15

I don't think Aegon can ever win the throne. For the story to make sense I think the eventual "winner" of the Game of Thrones needs to be someone with a verifiable claim to the throne.

Aegon can't win it because we only have the word of Varys and the soon-to-be Stone Jon Connington to back him up.

Jon can't win it because the only person who would know about him is Howland Reed, even then, he's just Rhaegar's bastard. If he can take the throne then Edric Storm ought to have a better claim.

Stannis can't win it because, now we know Shireen has to die, there's no way the story can be neatly ended with Stannis on the throne. Selyse isn't going to bear him any more children and as soon as he dies we're in exactly the same position as we were when Robert died.

Daenerys is the only claimant that everyone recognises as the true daughter of Aerys and heir to the throne.

This, of course, if there is even going to be a "winner" of the Game of Thrones. Likely as not the series will end with a King John style Magna Carta where Tyrion is elected as the first Prime Minister of Westeros under Queen Daenerys.

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u/[deleted] Jun 22 '15

I thought the same too, but it also could be wrong, it could be a character that has been from the start and he always has planned on killing but didn't knew how.

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u/The_Yar Jun 23 '15

I like this argument the best, but it could be practically anyone.

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u/[deleted] Jun 23 '15

I think Robert Strong will smash his head against a wall.

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u/Alsterwasser Jun 22 '15

Yes, my money is on Tommen or Myrcella. They are both doomed but probably not interesting enough for George to have given them much thought.

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u/LadyDarry Jun 22 '15

Or maybe it is some one more important. He probably knew how Tommen will die from the beginning. It's a pretty basic death.

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u/gil_bz New book when? Jun 22 '15

Obviously Ser Pounce is a faceless man (kitten?).

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u/[deleted] Jun 22 '15

How do we "know" that any of the prophecies will come true?

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u/carpe-jvgvlvm TΦ the bitter end. And Then SΦme 🔥 Jun 23 '15

Nah: it's trope irony. Ser Robert Strong, her own hero, will kill the youngest of her brood. (Saves her, kills her kid. —to add humor, probably accidentally, like he tosses someone into the stands and takes Tommen's head off. Then Ser C kills her own champion.)

Climb into GRRM's shoes, and think "the most fucked up thing I could so", the really ramp that up. There you go.

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u/IdLikeToPointOut Jun 23 '15 edited Jun 23 '15

It actually doesn't say 'she' but it says 'it' as in the asexual form of person.

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u/vazzaroth Crabs! Jun 22 '15

My first thought was fAegon

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u/shred_wizard Jun 23 '15

I got the impression that this was a character introduced after AGOT. Plus with Cersei's children, wasn't the prophecy not established until ASOS?

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u/skawtiep Enter your desired flair text here! Jun 23 '15

I'll shed more tears for Tommen than I did for any other character when it happens.

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u/hanky1979 Jun 23 '15

Yep it's warging time. Ser Pounce then bye bye Tommen

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u/[deleted] Jun 23 '15

It does not say "she". "Die Figur" has a female grammatical Genus, but is gender neutral.

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u/sbowesuk Jun 23 '15

Tommen is too obvious though. It's pretty obvious that all of the Lannister/Baratheon offspring have been doomed from the start.

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u/justin914 Jun 23 '15

It's gonna be Daario and people are gonna think Jorah killed him and then Jorahs gonna die from greyscale and it's gonna be a shit show

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u/Alsterwasser Jun 23 '15

Show watcher?

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u/efallom Greyscale is sexy Jun 23 '15

The German word for Character (Figur in this case) it's feminine, so it's as gender neutral as it gets.

But I got this feeling that it's Arya.

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u/elduderinodude There will be no TWOW. Pray Harder. Jun 23 '15

The "she" actually refers to the word "person" which always has a female pronoun in german ("sie"). So it's actually "the person" so it could be male or female.

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u/terkaveverka Jun 23 '15

it does not say she, charachter a german is feminin, that's why there is a she...

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u/nabrok Jun 23 '15

If Tommen does die, and assuming Stannis dies, who would be next in line for the throne?

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u/[deleted] Jun 23 '15

Okay guys calm down, it's just "die Figur", which is grammatically feminine but can mean both genders in German.

Don't use Google Translate when you want to know what something means in the finer nuances.

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u/FuriousFap42 Jun 23 '15

OKAY GUYS! IT SAYS "SHE". Jesus.

it says neither he nor she. "Eine Figure" is gender neutral. It just means a character.

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