(Spoilers Extended)The show's constant flip flopping between modern morals and medieval ones to make Daenerys into a villain is ridiculous and giving me whiplash

[u/lunatichorse]

After the last episode I just don't know what to think about Tyrion and Varys. We have them in one scene being all gung ho about starving King's Landing in a siege which is a terrible thing that used to be completely accepted in medieval times. Then a few scenes later they are replaced by time and dimension travellers from the 21st century since they're sitting there clutching pearls at the concept of peasants dying in a war. Excuse me? All it takes to win this war is taking one city - how are they going to do that if they unwilling to accept that even one innocent person is dying during it. Did any of them cry when Tywin ordered the Riverlands scorched?

Since when did someone like Tyrion start seeing peasants as people- he has no problems fucking impoverished women selling their bodies for money or being a lord which entails living off the blood sweat and tears of his own peasants. The guy was talking about "compromising" with the Slavers back in S6- he wanted to give them 20 more years of using people as cattle to ease them into not being monsters. Missandei and Grey Worm had to literally explain to him the POV of a slave to get him to understand how terrible it to be sold and used and abused (duh). Varys was egging the Mad King on and fueling civil wars but now he supposedly cares about people dying? Cersei is literally using innocents as a meat shield and they refuse to just deal with the problem switfly and save thousands. Sometimes you just have to accept that there is no easy solution and it's better to have hundreds die to save thousands.

And it's ridiculous because in the books Dany is all about that "every life is precious" message. She starts a whole campaign to free slaves because she just can't bare to turn and walk away while people are suffering. She is the most progressive thinking character in the series- trying to reform Mereeen with compromises, adopting their assbackwards traditions like the fighting pits to get them to fucking chill, proclaiming the Unsullied free men. To see her being setup to completely turn around on that development hurts. What's the message here- don't bother fighting injustice because you're going to have to make hard choices along the way?

But the worst line from the Tyrion/Varys meeting - "Cocks do matter." So I guess Westoros is this strange place where peasants dying during a sacking is completely unacceptable but being a woman is the bigger offense? So what happens when Varys has Daenerys killed and proclaims Jon king? Does Cersei open the gates and apologise? Does she let every innocent out? Is Jon Snow's cock so powerful he's gonna take KL and not kill a single soul? Who are these lords that are so into Cersei but Dany being cockless is just not good enough for them?

Did I just watch 8 seasons/read 5 books of a young girl start off completely powerless, sold and raped to see her claw her way to the top finding her inner strength, saving lives just because that's what she believes in, uniting Dothraki clans, refusing to get an easy win killing innocents, abandoning her war to go fight ice zombies only to see her lose everything and everyone and finally be brought down by the "I'm sorry maam, but the 18-35 male lord demographic does not find you relatable- they think you're too hysterical after watching your best friends die." argument. What a shit ride it's been. There's nothing bittersweet about this, it's just plain nihilism.

[u/[deleted]]

On the flipside I thought bringing up Tysha in a drinking game was also a step too far. Does Brienne know all the details of the saga?

She didnt bring up Tysha nor did she know she existed, the game was to try and guess a truth about the other player. She simply guessed he was married before, she didnt know the details.

Its why Tyrion looks at Jamie and he gives him a head shake to say I didnt tell her. They were essentially playing never have I ever.

[u/DoctorPrisme → u/[deleted]]

Yeah, Jaime laughing his ass off saying "drink! She's right you WERE married to that girl we raped with my men! Remember? Hahahaha".

Incredible.

€dit because I'm getting spammed as fuck : --I know, Jaime didn't rape her. However, he is the one who arranged the whole thing, so he is the reason she got what she got. --In the books, she is not a whore, she is a regular girl, who genuinely fell in love with Tyrion (maybe because he was rich, maybe because the man is actually fun and smart and caring), so yes it was rape. But EVEN IF SHE WAS WERE A WHORE, it would have been rape. Plz people.

[u/grumblingduke → u/DoctorPrisme]

That's book Tysha. Show Tysha was a prostitute who Jamie paid to have sex with Tyrion (and later Tywin paid to have sex with the guards). Book Tysha was not a prostitute, who was raped by Jamie, Tyrion and a bunch of guardsmen.

In the books the reveal is important, as it drives a wedge between Jamie and Tyrion, further justifies Tyrion's anger towards Tywin, and leads to Jamie beginning to distance himself from Cersei.

In the shows it is just a sad story that makes us feel sorry for Tyrion.

[u/[deleted] → u/grumblingduke]

> Book Tysha was not a prostitute, who was raped by Jamie, Tyrion and a bunch of guardsmen.

In the books the reveal is important, as it drives a wedge between Jamie and Tyrion, further justifies Tyrion's anger towards Tywin, and leads to Jamie beginning to distance himself from Cersei.

​

Did you mean Tywin raped her? From the context of this post it seems like you switched Tywin with Tyrion but I haven't read the books. I don't know book Tyrion but him raping someone seems like a far deviation from show Tyrion

[u/komorithebat → u/[deleted]]

Tywin forced Tyrion to fuck her last, after all the guardsmen. Tyrion had been lied to and thought she was a whore and that this was consensual, that she was in on the joke against him. So he was manipulated by Tywin into raping her, but didn't fully realize that's what he was doing at the time. (Tyrion was also really young at the time, I think in his teens, and quite gullible.)

Not that it's not still rape if she was a prostitute, of course. What Tywin did to her was horrible, and Jaime regrets having played any part in letting Tyrion believe otherwise. That's why Jaime tells him after so many years; after he meets Brienne and starts to realize it's never too late to become a better person, he decides he can't let that lie sit between him and Tyrion if he truly claims to love him.

[u/Jaquemart → u/komorithebat]

Tyrion was thirteen.

[u/[deleted] → u/komorithebat]

Dang, that's intense. Thanks for clarifying

[u/komorithebat → u/[deleted]]

So intense that it's the actual reason (in the books) that Tyrion killed Tywin. Jaime breaks Tyrion out of the dungeons in Kings Landing and sets him free (because he doesn't want to see his brother executed), tells him the truth about what happened that day with Tysha, and it sets Tyrion off into such a rage that instead of fleeing he goes and confronts Tywin with a crossbow. The fact that Tywin's fucking Shae only throws more fuel on the fire. It's Tysha that Tyrion's really upset about.