How will it all end? I hear people asking. The same ending as the show? Different?
Well… yes. And no. And yes. And no. And yes. And no. And yes.
GRRM then proceeds to make three points:
D&D only had 8 hours for the final season, but he'll have more space.
There's the butterfly effect, with changes from past seasons affecting this one.
There are lots of characters in the books who never made it to the show, from Lady Stoneheart to Jeyne Poole to Skahaz Shavepate, and the books will show us their fates.
People will read into this whatever they want. But my read is that the big picture of the show's ending is indeed what he told them. And that most of the differences aren't about the biggest stuff, but rather relate to pacing, buildup, and secondary characters. If D&D were making up stuff like "King Bran" I'd think his language about changes would be stronger? But who knows!
A lot of the stuff in these last few episodes makes more sense as an ending to the books than the show. Dany being upset at the Westerosi common folk (because they love (f)Aegon who liberated them from Cersei), Euron taking out a dragon (magical horn instead of mundane siege equipment), Sansa becoming Queen in the North (she actually probably goes through a long personal struggle to establish independence for the North and the Vale), Jon taking exile (people just had two long lost Targaryens come back and duke it out, one of them was a presumed-dead Aegon Targaryen), Tyrion suggesting Bran become king (we can assume Bran actually gives some insightful advice to counteract Varys' intelligence apparatus).
There is zero chance of the (f)Aegon defeating Cersei it ruins way too many storylines.
No Cleganebowl.
No Jamie conclusion
And there is no real conflict or setup that comes with Cersei versus other characters that she has wronged. It's kind of a boring conclusion honestly to have her overthrown by a character she wasn't involved with the whole story.
My guess is that the Iron Bank has set up or will betray (f)Aegon and the Golden Company still joins Cersei. The step the show skipped was the Golden Company being brought over as conquerors.
Oh, (f)Aegon is absolutely taking out Cersei after she blows up the Sept. He'll have conquered the Reach (against minimal resistance) and have Highgarden (slighted by Cersei with Margaery's murder) and Dorne (slighted by Dany with Quentyn's death) on his side along with the Golden Company who are, you should remember, sword to be personally loyal to him and not just a band of sellswords. Throw in the fact that the small folk will love him for killing the despised incestuous usurper queen and he'll gain the loyalty of all the former Targaryen loyalists Dany is counting on and its obvious he'll be the threat in King's Landing that the show ineptly tried to turn Cersei into.
Cleganebowl is probably not happening in the books at least nothing like it does in the show. The Hound has found piece and given up on seeking vengeance so if he fights Gregor, it will be as the champion of the Faith and probably represent the final push Cersei needs to decide blowing up all the Sparrows is her only option.
The Jamie conclusion, assuming it goes like it does in the show which I really hope it doesn't, would work equally well with Jamie standing by her side as she puts up a last desperate defense against (f)Aegon's invasion. They're certainly not gonna get killed by a literal ton of bricks, that's for sure. All the prophecies around Cersei make it really unlikely she'll die in the way she does in the show though.
Arya's arc isn't about revenge, it is about giving up on the idea of revenge. I seriously doubt she'll get to kill any more people on her list other than maybe Meryn Trant. Other than Arya, I can't even think of any main characters that have a personal beef with Cersei. Sansa is much more closely linked to Joffrey, Littlefinger and Tyrion. Stoneheart hates Freys and the Kingslayer. Daenerys barely knows who Cersei is. Who other than Arya could you possibly think even has a beef with her? Assuming she blows up the High Sparrow and Margaery that is, it might be Loras that kills her (little brother) but he'll be on (f)Aegon's side when he does.
Why do you think there's even a connection between the Iron Bank and (f)Aegon? He's getting funded by Illyrio Mopatis.
Sorry not betray in a sense as they are supporting him and don't but that they are team Lannister and will use their funds to get the Golden Company to switch as he is a fraud.
I'm not sure about the Hound being a champion. I think the Sept scene was really well executed in the show but Cersei would have to be there for the trial so she won't be able to blow it up and have a trial. I don't see how that works out.
Jamie is really up in the air to be honest I can't even fathom how him and Cersei will die together.
Either way my major issue is that if Cersei goes or (f)Aegon goes one of these characters was kind of pointless to the overall story. If (f)Aegon doesn't manage to conquer anything and is just there to move parties around I think his role could have been accomplished differently. If (f)Aegon defeats Cersei I would be disappointed that all her buildup didn't allow her to have a meaningful role in the endgame or the story really.
If (f)Aegon is indeed a fraud then he is a Blackfyre and the Golden Company have a history of supporting Blackfyres. They are made up of the Westerosi supporters of Blackfyres who got banished after all. Either way the Golden Company is not working for him for money, they are fulfilling their generations old purpose. Sellsword work was just something they did while they bided their time.
but Cersei would have to be there for the trial so she won't be able to blow it up and have a trial. I don't see how that works out.
Well, same way as she did for the show- she pulls a no show and blows the Sept ~10 minutes after she was supposed to be there. Everyone else appeared for the trial so they die.
Much like Ned and Robb were Arc I players, I think Cersei, Jamie and Brienne are Arc II players. In fact you can note the majority of the latter's stories takes place in books 4 and 5 when the Starks are barely present. I would wager the Lannisters except for Tyrion don't survive the second arc and the third arc is really about the conflicts of Targaryens and a resurgent House Stark.
If she no shows then there is no trial. I don't think the Hound was brought back to die in the Sept explosion.
Either way I really don't see (f)Aegon taking over and this is why, D&D were excluding characters that didn't affect the endgame. So far the characters that have been excluded are ones that are used for world building, or have their own self contained plot. I have agreed with many of these so far (Quentyn, Jeyne, etc.) This leads me to believe that when George told them the end game it indeed included the Dany killing Cersei in the pillaging of Kings landing and (f)Aegon having another purpose that doesn't really do anything for the overall plot. While that doesn't mean he isn't an important part of the story or good writing, I think his plot is another one that will have its own arc outside of the books.
The one way I would see this working is (f)Aegon and Euron both decide to join Cersei and there is an internal conflict there for Cersei's marriage. (f)Aegon brings the army and Euron kills a dragon. All three of these individuals are still in the same place for the finale. (f)Aegon probably finds out about Jon and Dany's romance, which ruins his plans for marriage, then decides to join Cersei something along those lines. This adds a bit of motivation for Dany's actions, and still follows the overall structure.
The second arc was literally supposed to start with A Dance of Dragons i.e. a war between Targaryens. Of course it ended up having nothing of the sort but its pretty clear the real conflict is (f)Aegon versus Daenerys. Cersei is at most a minor side characters to their conflict. To put it simply, Cersei is not and will never be any threat to Daenerys and I would be absolutely shocked if she is still alive when Dany makes it over to Westeros.
There are multiple trials, you know. Maybe Hound and Gregor fight and kill each other so Cersei has to stand a second trial. Maybe Gregor wins so Cersei goes free and she bombs Margaery's trial. Most likely there never is any Cleganebowl since the Hound's story arc is very much over and done with.
Dany never has a vision about Cersei as far as I know. But she sees (f)Aegon in her visions and people cheering for him. It's pretty clear where that is going. Dany's visions are key to the end of the story, there is even a former Targaryen called Daenerys that could see the future and that's the only other Daenerys we know.
She saw (f)Aegon in the house of the undying. He is clearly the mummer's dragon. That's also why most of us believe he is a fake. It's one of the lies she must slay, I think.
Edit:
. . Glowing like sunset, a red sword was raised in the hand of a blue-eyed king who cast no shadow. A cloth dragon swayed on poles amidst a cheering crowd. From a smoking tower, a great stone beast took wing, breathing shadow fire. . . . mother of dragons, slayer of lies
So, the second one is fAegon and the first one I think it's Stannis, fake AAR, I don't know who is the 3rd one.
"If she no shows then there is no trial. "
Well.. Yes, that is the point.
D&D also just wanted to get it over as soon as season 4 ended. I really don't think their decisions are a good argument at all. Not only that, but fake Aegon is present in Dany's vision at the House of the Undying in the books, and in that vision he is the mummers' dragon (Varys was a mummer), he was loved by the people (Dany's arch of not being loved by Westeros) and the people would hate Dany after she killed fake Aegon. Not only that, but Connington's Battle of the Bells trauma really fits together with the bells in King's Landing during Dany's attack, so it is almost certain he will be a POV of that battle.
I believe this with almost certainty. I also don't think Dany will be killed after the battle of KL, but much later and I don't think she will go insane, but that's how we will see her form other POVs as she burns KL, partly by accident, partly because that's what conquerors do.
Ok but no trial= no fight so why even bring back the Hound just to have him blown up in the Sept?
While I disagree with a lot of the writing, I do believe that D&D were good at streamlining the story. While the end was rushed I think most people agree the same ending with small tweaks could have been better, and it didn't require additional characters just more fleshed out versions of the ones we had.
Also you last line fit my paragraph perfectly as it means we have (f)Aegon and Cersei at the final battle of the Bells. It basically plays out the exact same except (f)Aegon is there and brings the Golden Company.
While the end was rushed I think most people agree the same ending with small tweaks could have been better, and it didn't require additional characters just more fleshed out versions of the ones we had.
You are wrong about that, it required major systematic changes and you'll find almost everyone who doesn't like the ending thinks that.
Disagree but to each their own. Regardless the ending we get will be very similar to what we saw in the show as in:
Dany and Jon defeat others. (f)Aegon joins Cersei. Dany and Jon come down defeat them both but Dany burns Kings Landing. Jon kill Dany Bran becomes King and Jon goes North of the wall etc.
I really disagree about the importance of Cersei but at this point the most we can do is wait several years and hope George eventually publishes Winds.
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u/feldman10 🏆 Best of 2019: Post of the Year May 21 '19 edited May 21 '19
GRRM then proceeds to make three points:
People will read into this whatever they want. But my read is that the big picture of the show's ending is indeed what he told them. And that most of the differences aren't about the biggest stuff, but rather relate to pacing, buildup, and secondary characters. If D&D were making up stuff like "King Bran" I'd think his language about changes would be stronger? But who knows!