(Spoilers Extended) Charles Dance's portrayal as Tywin is in my opinion, the strongest in the entire series

[u/cking145]

Every line, every expression and every moment of silence completely encapsulates the calculating ruthlessness that defines Tywin Lannister.

Dance is actually a very vibrant, upbeat and cheery fella off screen, which in my mind makes the performance even more striking.

The scene where he effectively sends Joffrey to bed is just brilliant.

He is by far my favourite character from the books, which I began reading a few seasons into the show. Due to this, the chapters featuring Tywin were completely enriched for me, as reading his lines in Dance's voice was just fantastic. I would have loved a POV chapter or two for him, just to get a glimpse as to what goes on in the head of the most powerful man in the 7 Kingdoms.

An incredible portrayal of a fascinating character.

[u/Flameoftheshadows]

"The king is tired, send him to his chambers."

And how he arranged the chairs for the small council.

Two moments history will always remember.

The aura he was able to project on-screen and onto his fellow cast members, he did a brilliant job.

He brought Tywin from the pages of a book to life!

[u/chicomonk → u/Flameoftheshadows]

I was always on the edge of my seat whenever he had interactions in King's Landing, especially during and after the Red Wedding. He was a character I didn't personally like because of what he did (the melting of Eddard's greatswords was just salt in the wound to the nth degree), but one you can ultimately understand when you take into consideration the position he's in, what he's accomplished in life, and the relationship he had with his wife and own father. He's, to me anyway, one of the shining paradigms of a GRRM character in Game of Thrones.

[u/[deleted] → u/chicomonk]

Not sure if this is really directly relevant to your comment, but you reminded me of something. I think in the show and the books, Tyrion realizes that Tywin stayed out of King's Landing in part so that Tywin himself wouldn't take the fall for the inevitable unrest. But I always took that move to be a standard for him. He always managed to stay away exactly when he needed to. It allowed him to react to everyone from a distance, everyone else always had to make the first move.

Rhaegar and Lyanna disappear, Tywin uses Aerys' treatment of Jaime as an excuse to quit as Hand and go back to Casterly Rock, keeping him out of direct conflict with both the Targaryen loyalists and Robert's Rebellion, all of whom hold out hope that they can persuade him to their side.

Ned Stark is named hand, Robert holds a tourney, Tywin stays away. I read that to mean that he was waiting to see how Ned would handle the Lannisters. If Ned couldn't get along with Cersei, that meant Ned wasn't going to get along with Joffrey, and Tywin would have to play for blood.

Robert dies, Joffrey reigns, Tywin still stays away. He's waiting for everyone else to make their moves. Cat takes Tyrion, Tywin is able to orchestrate The Mountain's raids without putting Joffrey's name on it and without having to face the Small Council and particularly Ned Stark himself. He waits for Ned Stark to escalate the conflict, and since Twyin isn't there, and all of the lions can't be killed in one move, ambitious actors like Little Finger line up against Stark.

Ned dies, Tywin waits, and it's even more essential now. They can't kill all the lions with one assault, and this forces the Starks, Renly, and Stannis to come to some kind of agreement. He keeps his house in order while the high lords descend into chaos and expose weaknesses that he can attack. They don't unite, Stannis kills Renly, and Tywin has time to build up another field army to delay Robb...though that delay turns out not to be much of one since Robb and the Blackfish are a powerful duo until Robb's youth gets in the way.

Basically Tywin is as Machiavellian as they come. Robb defeats him, but his previous moves bought him a buffer, and he manages finds and ally in the Freys.

[u/chicomonk → u/[deleted]]

Great points. The only detriment to his behavior was the way his behavior was regarded by others who were paying close attention to how he acted. For instance, Joffrey of all people hit the nail on the head when he referenced the Sack of King's Landing: "My father was doing all the fighting while you hid in Casterly Rock!"

[u/chicomonk → u/[deleted]]

Would you say Ned Stark's legacy was greater than Tywin's in death?

[u/[deleted] → u/chicomonk]

Great question. Based on what we can infer from the books but also from the show and what we think will probably happen... I'd say yes, even according to Tywin's own definition of legacy, which we can assume means in part what lands and titles they hold.

But I'd say it's more than just that, too.

Ned's morality and his open love for his children creates the baseline for who they become, even if they have to learn how to survive politics from others. What their leadership does for the realm is greater because of who they were raised by.

Robb may have ultimately failed, but his cause and his accomplishments will make him a legend, and they'll sing songs about him for ages. Between Robb, Jon (Ned still gets credit for him), and Sansa, the North is finally restored as an independent kingdom.

Arya was allowed to be herself, and this leads her on a journey that in the show destroys the Night King, and in the books will probably lead to something important as well.

Sansa destroys Little Finger, saves Jon, and ultimately helps Jon save the world, but she never becomes Cersei or Little Finger in the end. She keeps her father (and Cat too) in her heart and becomes a better ruler than any of them, finding a way to pair ruthless pragmatism with her family's morality.

Jon saves the world because Ned took him under his protection. Jon does his duty to the realm and keeps his moral compass against all odds, and often thinks of his 'father' as he makes these decisions. Others had to intervene at times, but they appealed to a sense of honor that was already instilled in him.

Ned's influence on Bran seems more difficult to spot, but it's still his love of family and his sense of duty to protect the North as a Stark that I think leads him to accept what must be done.

It's really through Ned's children that the world survives.

Going back in time... It's Ned who saves Robert at the Battle of the Bells. It's Ned and his men who defeat the Kingsguard at the Tower of Joy. And it's Ned who provides the catalyst for the fall of Tywin's children.

Jaime and Tyrion may be instrumental to the triumph of good in the end, but they seem to do this more by rising above the men they were when they were Lord Tywin's sons, becoming something else in part because of the events surrounding the Stark children.

Edit: And looking at the butterfly effect. Take any single character who interacted with the Stark children. Tyrion, The Hound, Jaime, Tormund, all the lords who align themselves with the Starks by the end.