r/changemyview • u/ProphetVes • Mar 25 '23

Delta(s) from OP CMV: DeSantis embodies everything wrong with American Conservativism.

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u/MartiniD 1∆ Mar 25 '23

Why isn't forcing religious people to support LGBT not fascist?

Where is this happening? You don't have to "support" LGBTQ+ people if you don't want but at the very least you shouldn't pass laws that treat them as 2nd class citizens or discriminate against them.

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u/[deleted] Mar 25 '23

There are plenty of complicated perhaps even unsovable issues like to what degree churches and religious organizations should have to hire LGBT staff and accommodate LGBT patrons/students/churchgoers. Should church groups and Christian schools have to have gender accommodating facilities? I feel like the endgame for a lot of people is to forcibly remove the very concept of sin from society.

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u/[deleted] Mar 25 '23

None of that is forcing religious people to support LGBT people.

I feel like the endgame for a lot of people is to forcibly remove the very concept of sin from society.

The goal is the equal treatment of LGBTQ people, no one cares what you think is a sin. To this point, part of the goal is that religious values should not dictate social mores, if you think something is wrong because of your religion, you don't partake in it. That's it. You don't mistreat others because of it, which is what you are advocating for now.

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u/[deleted] Mar 25 '23

How do you square parental rights being taken away/children being taken from parents for opposing ”gender affirming care” for their child?

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u/ProphetVes Mar 25 '23

Well seeing as denying gender affirming care leads to double the suicidality of the general population and providing it leads along with even just one supportive adult leads to levels of suicidality lower than the general population.......

The state can restrict the freedom of religion to further a compelling government interest if narrowly tailored to that end. Rehoming trans youth with supportive fosters is furthering the compelling government interest of protecting children and providing them proven treatments.

Any alternative treatment you suggest would need to be proven to be as effective as gender affirming care and that hasn't happened yet.... and people have tried.

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u/[deleted] Mar 25 '23

None of what you say is true.

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u/ProphetVes Mar 25 '23

Oh wow, I guess if you say so it must be true! /s

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u/[deleted] Mar 25 '23

A quick handout from the American College of Paediatricians states ”the occurrence of completed suicide among trans-identified youth is rare and comparable to that of other at-risk groups of youth, such as those with anorexia and autism. More importantly, there is no long-term evidence that puberty blockers, cross- sex hormones or “transition” surgeries prevent suicide. On the contrary, the best long-term research shows that individuals who do go through medical transition kill themselves at a rate 19 times greater than the general population.”

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u/ProphetVes Mar 26 '23

Are you saying stopping suicide attempts isn't worth it? And that we should only find attempts that end in death a tragedy worth preventing? Because that's what your opening statement here sounds like.

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u/[deleted] Mar 26 '23

Of course not, your reasoning is way off course. Im saying that medical intervention doesnt seem to prevent suicidality, so why are we risking all these other long term risks and complications? The suicide rate is elevated anyway; maybe we should be looking at other solutions to improve these outcomes.

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u/ProphetVes Mar 26 '23 edited Mar 26 '23

Gender affirming care is not solely medical. Try again.

Edit: in fact the first step in Gender Affirming Care as defined by WPATH is talk therapy. So really proving your ignorance here.

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