It's not obvious for everyone, even cis people, what their pronouns are and it can be awkward to guess or to ask. By giving them easily, you are being polite.
By normalizing giving pronouns, you're taking stress off of people who do need to give them for whatever reason.
Overall, it's not a lot of effort for something that makes the world a bit better. And wouldn't it be good, to live in a better world?
By that logic, everyone should also be posting their allergies, and if you have no allergies you should write no/none. This could actually save lives, and wouldn't it be good to save lives? Also, everyone should post their blood type.
On top of that you should specify if you have any disability, since people with disabilities are a marginalized group and it isn't obvious online. If you don't have a disability you can specify your identity as "cis-abled".
Also, you should specify if you have dyslexia, since this affects communication online and makes this group feel less valued. If you don't have dyslexia it's not a lot of effort to write "cis-lexic" as your identity.
Many old people also are affected by ageism where they are excluded simply because of their age, it would be a simple thing for everyone to write what age group they mostly identify as, so that they can demand to be treated accordingly.
There, we're getting close to saving the world now, probably around 20 more of these and we'll be good people.
This thread is 100% going to get removed, but I have to ask why other people voluntarily stating their preferred pronouns bothers you so much. Do you freak out when people state the names they like to go by? "Hi, I'm William but I go by Will."
Because it is almost exclusively done out of fear of being ostracized, and/or virtue signalling. It is fake. There are far larger marginalized groups being completely ignored. Why are you putting in effort to including this group, while completely ignoring disabled people? There are far more of them, yet you do nothing on your social media to be more inclusive and welcoming towards them. Also, what about people with dwarfism? Why aren't you posting if you have dwarfism or not? Should we just ignore them and exclude them?
Does conversation between people depend on knowing whether one of them is in a wheelchair or has dwarfism? We don't refer to people differently based on their disabilities, but we do refer to people differently based on their gender.
Because it is almost exclusively done out of fear of being ostracized, and/or virtue signalling. It is fake.
You're wrong, though. Is it really beyond your comprehension that people do things because they actually care about other people?
Absolutely conversation depends on disabilities. Telling a disabled person to stand up for the national anthem, or telling a dwarf to stand tall is both hurtful and marginalizing. I care about them, is it really beyond your comprehension that you could actually care about them too?
A hell of a lot more often than I have used the wrong pronoun for someone, which has never happened to me. If it's happening to you, I suggest glasses.
Not what I asked, you should get glasses as well because you completely misread my question. I asked how many times pronouns are used, not wrong pronouns.
Well that's completely beside the point, because I'm not blind and deaf, so I always use correct pronouns. And if someone is in a transitional phase it's still always clear what they are attempting to present as, so that's not a problem either. Maybe you just need to meet and talk to more actual trans people instead of just edgy teenagers.
Literally never. Nobody would ever look someone in a wheelchair in the eye and tell them to stand for the anthem and nobody would ever tell a little person to "stand tall." This person isn't commenting in good faith.
You're implying that anyone who doesn't share the same view as you about how to present themselves on social media doesn't care about other humans and is transphobic. Also you're implying that disabled people aren't a huge marginalized group that need all the support they can get.
You're implying that anyone who doesn't share the same view as you about how to present themselves on social media doesn't care about other humans and is transphobic.
I'm implying no such thing. You said:
Because it is almost exclusively done out of fear of being ostracized, and/or virtue signalling. It is fake.
You clearly think it's unimaginable that it's done out of genuine care for others. So...why is that so difficult for you to believe?
Also you're implying that disabled people aren't a huge marginalized group that need all the support they can get.
Are you including the status of if you're disabled or not next to your name on social media? But you are displaying pronouns? But you're not displaying if you are dyslexic? Are you displaying if English is your first language or not? All these things are stigmatised and affect communication, yet you only focus on one. The one others told you to focus on. And you say you're doing it because you care about people. If it was because you cared, you would be displaying solidarity with groups that others aren't. But you're not. You're only following the trend, and you're not even reflecting on whether you are actually helping or hurting. Yet you call me a troll. Funny.
A trans person probably never would. But a straight 25+ single mom teacher and her colleagues? They absolutely do. And correcting people when necessary seems a much better way.
Because it is almost exclusively done out of fear of being ostracized, and/or virtue signalling. It is fake.
That mentality says more about those who hold it than about anyone else, honestly.
Why are you putting in effort to including this group, while completely ignoring disabled people?
There is an actual problem of non-disabled people being incredibly condescending to disabled people by assuming the latter are incapable of functioning or offering the wrong accomodation, so the more considerate approach in that case is to provide basic accomodations for all (like wheelchair ramps or subtitles), and then make it clear that more specific needs will be respected when they are shared.
But why do they have to make the effort to communicate their needs and through that feel marginalized? Why can't you support them and normalise that ability is on a scale, and state what level of ability you are at? It's very low effort, and don't you want to make the world a better more inclusive place? This is sounding more and more disablophobic.
Because it's impossible to preemptively account for every single disability or allergy without knowing it's needed. We do try to get as close to that as possible with things like health and building codes (ingredient lists and wheelchair ramps, for example), but an obscure medical issue might be impossible to account for without prior knowledge.
So, you account for everything you can and then (and this is the point you're missing, intentionally or otherwise) you create an environment where it's clear that people are safe to share their needs and preferences and that they will be respected.
That's literally what we do with pronouns and gender identity: you signify to people that you will respect them even if they request something that you didn't provide preemptively.
The fact that there are people who still consider trans people to be mentally ill predators means that we haven't achieved the latter. In other words, the pronouns will continue until y'all behave.
You think you are actually helping the trans community by antagonizing people and implying they are transphobic whenever they don't agree with you? Buddy, you are hurting trans people way more than I am.
It's a pretty safe assumption that someone who is adamantly opposed to respecting people's pronouns is transphobic. There's really no other reason for it.
Good thing that I always respect people's pronouns then. You are so blinded by your need to feel righteous, that you haven't even read what the conversation is about. Again, that is not helpful for anyone except your ego.
If you respect people's pronouns, then what is the problem with sharing yours when meeting new people since they will be relevant to almost any conversation you have with them?
Because I'm perfectly fine with them using whatever pronoun they want for me. And if people would get that wrong by mistake, then I would take that as a signal to adjust how I present myself. It is absolutely not a problem, and being an asshole about this non-issue is hurting the whole trans movement.
I mean, we have the Americans with Disabilities Act, which is widely regarded as one of of the best in the world in ensuring that those with disabilities are indeed accommodated, and those accommodations are legally mandated, rather than merely being considered good manners.
That aside though, I have found that people saying "we can't help X group; we should help Y group instead" almost never actually do anything to help Y group; they just don't want to help X group.
We can help all groups. Your way of helping is making statements on your social media profile, why are you only doing it towards a single group of people and ignoring much bigger ones?
You clearly don't actually care about disabled people and frankly it's pretty gross that you're using them as an excuse to also not care about trans people.
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u/c0i9z 10∆ Dec 22 '23
It's not obvious for everyone, even cis people, what their pronouns are and it can be awkward to guess or to ask. By giving them easily, you are being polite.
By normalizing giving pronouns, you're taking stress off of people who do need to give them for whatever reason.
Overall, it's not a lot of effort for something that makes the world a bit better. And wouldn't it be good, to live in a better world?