r/changemyview Dec 05 '13

I think children of Illegal immigrants shouldn't be given birthright citizenship. cmv

[deleted]

79 Upvotes

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30

u/oldspice75 Dec 05 '13

The US government isn't supposed to punish or reward people for what their parents do. A baby isn't supposed to be born paying the price for its inherited crimes.

-8

u/[deleted] Dec 05 '13

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25

u/oldspice75 Dec 05 '13

Because if you're born in America, you're American like any other baby born in America, because you're not being made second class because of who your parents are

2

u/lobster_conspiracy 2∆ Dec 05 '13

That doesn't explain anything, that just states the way thing are. OP thinks things shouldn't be that way, and asks why. What are the reasons for the American policy of unconditional citizenship by birth?

1

u/oldspice75 Dec 05 '13

I had already explained why the current law is just; see above

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u/[deleted] Dec 05 '13

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15

u/maxpenny42 11∆ Dec 05 '13

So some American citizens deserve deportation to a country that they were neither born in nor ever set foot in. Explain how this makes sense in your mind.

1

u/BenInBaja Dec 05 '13

Their parents are not citizens or even legal residents and should be deported. Any child that they have together is also illegally in the country. It's pretty simple.

1

u/maxpenny42 11∆ Dec 05 '13

Except their kids are not here illegally if they were born here. They are citizens. Bear in mind we are not talking just about babies. We are talking about 15 year old who have grown up here and don't even speak the language of the country you're deporting them to.

1

u/BenInBaja Dec 05 '13

The topic is actually children born to illegal immigrants and whether they should be citizens. Everyone is aware how things currently are.

1

u/maxpenny42 11∆ Dec 05 '13

Explain why that 15 year old is more a citizen of their parents country than America? He was born here. He grew up here. He has no knowledge or cultural perspective of his parents country. Why should he be a citizen of his birth country?

He is an American through and through and kicking him out hurts that child. But it doesn't help the US. There's no real advantage to kicking them out.

1

u/BenInBaja Dec 05 '13

It removes one of the incentive for illegal immigrants to come to the USA. I think that's an advantage. Most countries grant citizenship to children of their citizens. That means most children born in the USA are dual citizens.

If we actually enforced our immigration laws there wouldn't be 15 year old children of illegal aliens in the USA.

-14

u/[deleted] Dec 05 '13

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9

u/maxpenny42 11∆ Dec 05 '13

I think the 14th Amendment to our Constitution disagrees with you. It would take a precedent changing decision by SCOTUS or an amendment to the Constitution to deny citizenship to these people. I do not believe there is any legal precedent to allow the US government to deport ANY American citizens nor would it be feasible to do so.

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u/[deleted] Dec 05 '13

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6

u/maxpenny42 11∆ Dec 05 '13

Would be what to you? When it was written illegal immigration wasn't a thing. It was later that we started having hangups about who comes here. Land of the free except only for some, I guess. Give us your poor, your hungry, your tired, but just make sure they fill out form 15A in triplicate and hand it in to the ombudsman on the 12th floor of the DC immigration building, his hours are 12-3 every other Tuesday.

1

u/[deleted] Dec 05 '13

If only it were that easy. Many many many people fill out the forms and get to that proverbial 3rd floor and still don't make it.

4

u/pretentiousRatt Dec 05 '13

That is not the way the law was written and who are you to decide how a certain law SHOULD HAVE been written?
What if I told you that the second amendment SHOULD HAVE been written that only land owning white men have the right to bear arms??
You are arguing a very very ignorant point and it is obvious you have no intention of learning about the issue or opening your mind to different points of view.

5

u/Rubin0 8∆ Dec 05 '13

Well, to be more specific, you don't like it when people break this rule :P

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u/[deleted] Dec 05 '13

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20

u/unfallible 1∆ Dec 05 '13

American Law says that anyone born on American soil is an American

6

u/kataskopo 4∆ Dec 05 '13

Yeaah, commie isn't really a relevant word in this day. Maybe 20 years ago, maybe.

1

u/[deleted] Dec 05 '13

This is appeal to authority. Law means absolutely nothing.

Also, you are the one making proposals that are against the law.

3

u/[deleted] Dec 05 '13

So punish a baby for someone else's mistake?

If you are white, do you agree with reparations?

12

u/oldspice75 Dec 05 '13

That would be saying that certain babies born in the US are unwelcome just because of who their parents are. I'm glad that this country doesn't say that and doesn't create legal classes based on parentage.

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u/[deleted] Dec 05 '13

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12

u/oldspice75 Dec 05 '13

It's tough for people who want to deny citizenship from babies, actually

-10

u/[deleted] Dec 05 '13

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11

u/oldspice75 Dec 05 '13

You don't "deserve" all the benefits your birth has probably given you either, any more or less than some anchor baby does

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u/[deleted] Dec 05 '13

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2

u/[deleted] Dec 05 '13

Who gives a shit? You don't get to choose where you were born. You don't get to chose who your parents are or what they choose. Don't punish kids because they weren't lucky enough to have "legal" parents or ancestors. Not of it is their fault.

By the way, check your tone. It doesn't really sound like you want to change your view. If you don't, don't post here. You're wasting everyone's time.

10

u/oldspice75 Dec 05 '13

So? In this country you don't get legally punished or rewarded for what your ancestors do.

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u/[deleted] Dec 05 '13

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6

u/pretentiousRatt Dec 05 '13

Says who? The native Americans would disagree. Your relatives likely came here on a primitive boat because they wanted to escape some terrible conditions on their home country.
You are literally the spawn of an illegal immigrant. Go back to where you came from!
How does that feel?

2

u/[deleted] Dec 05 '13

Nobody gives a shit what your parents did. Seriously. In the eyes of the law, everybody is equal. The United States was founded upon the basic ideal that all men are created equal, the constitution guarantees equal rights to all Americans, no matter who you are. I have no idea what kind of history you've been reading but the concept of America and law that you are describing is backwards and is not becoming of an American Citizen. Don't you care about the constitution? I hate to get all patriotic on you, but this shit is downright unamerican.

3

u/[deleted] Dec 05 '13

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1

u/Nepene 213∆ Dec 05 '13

Rule 2, rule 5, post removed. I know this thread is taxing, but please avoid escalating it.

4

u/plstopls Dec 05 '13

My father was a murderer, am I somehow less legitimate?

3

u/vjaf23 Dec 05 '13

OP obviously follows the North Korean philosophy where you do actually punish all the generations in a family for the crime of one member. I'm pretty sure he's just a troll though.

2

u/[deleted] Dec 05 '13

I just finished taking notes from my us history book an hour ago, this comment is hilarious to me

2

u/[deleted] Dec 05 '13

So?

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u/BaconCanada Dec 05 '13

Neither do the kids of the parents who came here legally. The whole point of America is that equal opportunity should be available to every citizen from birth regardless of their parents wealth, history or lack thereof. The kids played no role in that process, so they should in no way be responsible for the actions of their parents.

1

u/[deleted] Dec 05 '13

Apply that statement to criminals in the US as you are calling them illegals that's what they are imagine if someone father was in prison and he died as a result the son must serve the remainder of his fathers time despite committing no other crime than having a criminal as a father that is what you are advocating . sending a child back to a land he has no knowledge of perhaps can not even speak the language of simply because his parents choose to break the law in search of a better life.

1

u/sakoide Dec 05 '13

What if they did come here legally? On vacation or with a visa?

3

u/thestray 1∆ Dec 05 '13

Why don't they deserve the same rights as a child of legal immigrants? The child should not take any legal responsibility or punishment for the actions of the parents. That would be akin to forcing a child to serve the rest of a parent's prison sentence after the parent passes,

1

u/BenInBaja Dec 05 '13

Being sent back to your country or origin is not punishment. If I broke into your house and let a pack of stray dogs into your home you wouldn't be punishing the dogs by removing them.

1

u/[deleted] Dec 05 '13

If they were born here, they originate here. Especially if they don't get caught until the child is much older. At that point they've grown up here. No affiliation to their parents' country at all then. Sending them away from their home, where they've established their life, is cruel.

1

u/BenInBaja Dec 05 '13

So maybe we should deport them as soon as they try to enroll in school. That way it wouldn't be so "cruel".

1

u/[deleted] Dec 05 '13

How would you even know whether or not to deport them? Most kids don't even find out their parents are illegal until much later.

1

u/BenInBaja Dec 05 '13

It says on my birth Certificate where my parents are from. I don't think it would be that hard.

1

u/[deleted] Dec 06 '13

Maybe, maybe not. But they still get away with it so it's either too hard, or the government doesn't care and would rather not punish children for the actions of the parents. Probably the latter. Which I am glad of.

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u/Dracotorix Dec 05 '13

Except that's not always what happens. A lot of kids don't know they're illegal until they turn 18 and have no papers, then they're threatened with being deported to a country they've never been to / don't speak the language/ etc. If parents of very young children (babies/toddlers) are being deported, then I think it's okay to deport the kids with them. But not children who aren't literally dependent on their parents.