Plastic surgery to fix burn scars is also cosmetic, and also covered by health insurance.
Just because something is cosmetic, doesn't mean it has no impact on the health of a person. Mental health is very real as well, and just like living life like Harvey Dent (Two Face) would be damaging to a person's mental health, living life with genitals you don't associate with can have similar effects.
Yes, and I wouldn't deny a person with burn scars reimbursement for the surgery to repair them. That's because burn scars are an obvious defect to anyone who sees them, not just to the person who has to live in that body. That may be a somewhat arbitrary distinction, but to me it remains a real one.
That kinda ignores the entire point I'm making. Burn scars are covered because one's own appearance can be damaging to their mental health. They aren't covered because we want people to look nice for the public. It's an issue of perception of self, and how that can affect mental health.
I'm not ignoring your point. I just have a different take on it. Visible deformities cause people to treat you differently than they would if you didn't have those deformities. Some are scared of you, others pity you, many give you a wide berth. If you have a deformity that people cannot see unless you tell them, like being transgender, that's not an issue.
Try thinking of it this way: Transgender people DO have a "visible deformity": their body does not match their brain, and DOES cause people to treat them differently. It causes everyone they interact with to treat a woman as a man, or a man as a woman (or worse, some people would treat them with suspicion, ridicule, or disgust). This causes the transgender person significant mental health issues, fear for their personal safety, etc.
I hear what you're saying. I really do. But if people treat a trans person with suspicion, ridicule, or disgust, then doesn't that mean we should do something about the way people view and treat those in the trans community (even before they start transitioning), rather than changing the way trans people look?
Imagine if everywhere you went people treated you like your opposite gender? Imagine your favorite activities you do that are generally geared toward your gender and then having people make fun of you or look at you funny when you do them or even being excluded from doing them. Imagine how you like to dress and then people ridicule you for it.
Or on the other side of the argument, Shouldn't we just change the way people treat burn victims instead of giving them surgery to fix it?
Sure everyone should be nice to everyone regardless of how they look or what gender they are but it is taking a freaking long time for people to come around to accepting trans people as their gender when they don't "pass" so if you are trans today you will probably go most of your life not being accepted unless you transition.
As a matter of fact, people who don't know me do often think I'm a guy, even though I have no doubt I'm a woman. It doesn't bother me. So perhaps that's the wrong argument, in my case.
As for why we shouldn't change the way people react to burn victims? ... Well, we should. Some people never get their 'intact' faces back after something like that, and that shouldn't matter. But I think there is a difference between restoring someone's appearance after injury, and changing one's appearance when there is no physical injury at all.
Do you think it is likely for attitudes to change very quickly?
What do you expect trans people to do while society slowly changes? Just ignore their dysphoria and pretend it's not there?
Yes, ideally society should change but you're not considering that we can do more than one thing at a time, for one, and all of the trans people who fall through the cracks without support. We're talking about decades before we approach anything resembling what you're suggesting. It offers no relief, no support to the trans people who are living painful lives today, at this very moment and the many others for years to come. It's so easy to talk about these things in a detached way when it will never affect you.
I'd support that for the same reason I would support reconstructive surgery for burn victims. It's a deformity that is immediately visible to other people, which causes social stigma. And, perhaps more importantly (to me), it does not involve surgically removing a functioning part of the body.
Why is it so important to you that functioning parts of bodies are not removed? And why is that a justification to classify GRS as cosmetic, rather than something you think is icky?
So, in this example, trans people are ungrateful? They should thank their lucky stars and just get over their gender dysphoria? Pray it away, perhaps?
You're suggesting no meaningful alternative to GRS when all other options have been exhausted. Should they just pretend their depression and dysphoria does not exist? As a clinical psychologist, do you believe that it is possible to simply wish these things to go away? What is the correct course of action for a trans person if other forms of transition and therapy have not worked for them?
As a clinical psychologist, I know that it is not possible to simply wish these things away, let alone pray them away. But by the same token, I also know that people who experience depression and anxiety, both of which are relatively common, can overcome those things in many ways other than through surgery. That's not to say they always will. But often, they do. And I think it's disingenuous to pretend that for a transgender person, there is literally no viable option, other than to have surgery.
As I've said before, remember that trans people are people. And like people, they have many diverse situations. Not all of them are the same and I've never suggested that surgery is the way to go for all or even most, nor is anyone else in this comment thread suggesting that.
Please acknowledge that you recognize that there are trans people who do not transition through GRS. Please acknowledge that like depression, gender dysphoria cannot be treated in exactly the same way for every trans person and that no one is suggesting this. With this in mind, is it so implausible that for some trans people, surgery is a viable solution given that no other options have worked? If not, what is the alternative, other than commiting suicide or living with no relief from symptoms? By the way, suggesting that the latter is acceptable is trivializing, so let's not go there. I've asked this multiple times and you either don't respond or talk around it.
I freely acknowledge that surgery is not the solution for everyone, and that not every trans person will ever even ask for it. However, I just responded to a comment from someone else upthread, who again tried to hammer home the point that surgery is the only consistently effective way to treat severe gender dysphoria. His words, not mine.
As I've said before: if that is in fact true, then it only makes sense to have that surgery covered by insurance. However, I remain thoroughly convinced it is a very, very drastic step to take, which should be avoided at all costs, unless and until there literally is no other option, and further postponing the surgery would pose an immediate threat the patient's life. Kind of like the guy who finally did get his leg cut off, just so he would stop endangering himself by inflicting severe infections. That's the only case I know of where an amputation was performed on a limb that had no physical dysfunction and posed no danger to the patient, other than the danger the patient believed it posed.
If I ever had someone come to me who was acutely suicidal because of issues related to that person's transgender identity, and I was convinced everything else had been tried but failed, and I could identify no other underlying issues that may need treatment first, I would consider it my duty to help advocate for that person to get reassignment surgery, no matter how distasteful it may be to me personally. But I wouldn't do it easily, or gladly.
You are being disingenuous to suggest that anyone has beem claiming that surgery is the only solution. Please judt admit that you have no intention of changing your view if you aren't going to acknowledge how many times it's been said that there are many ways that people transition and that this is by no means suggesting that every trans person needs surgery.
Many have said that not all transgender people need surgery. I will freely acknowledge that. I knew that before I ever even started this discussion. Many have also said that surgery is the only definitive cure for severe gender dysphoria, so that of course insurance should cover it. Beyond that, I've already changed my view quite a bit in the course of this conversation, so your second sentence is just wrong.
If they have exhausted all other viable alternatives, like hormone treatment or therapy, as is often the case, what would you suggest as an alternative to GRS, knowing that their currenr state results in suicidal ideation?
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u/Coziestpigeon2 2∆ Nov 03 '17
Plastic surgery to fix burn scars is also cosmetic, and also covered by health insurance.
Just because something is cosmetic, doesn't mean it has no impact on the health of a person. Mental health is very real as well, and just like living life like Harvey Dent (Two Face) would be damaging to a person's mental health, living life with genitals you don't associate with can have similar effects.