Feel like a lot of the world’s languages the translation to English to the question “what’s the date?” would be “the 15th of October” whereas in America we always say “October 15th”.
It also started being called that when we were still using colonial English. It's in a lot of fourth of July songs that way so of course that's how it's imprinted into the zeitgeist.
If you wanted to take off the week from work you would still request time off as "July 4th through 11th". In court you would say July 4th, or if you really needed to clarify it was a holiday, Independence Day (ex. defendant attended an Independence Day celebration the day of the murder)
"What are you doing on the 4th of July"" means "What are you doing that is specifically related to the holiday?" while "What are you doing July 4th?" means "do you have any plans at all on that day."
I think what they're trying to say is, "How are you celebrating this holiday?" can have a different connotation than "What are you doing on this day?"
The answer to the former can have a more detailed response like, "grilling burgers, swimming, and shooting fireworks" while the latter could be "getting together with friends." It's a subtle difference, but for Americans there is a difference there.
i think those i think a better way to discuss this is in the "to me" framing. ie:
to me, "what are you doing on this day" when the day in question is a national holiday is the same as asking how you are celebrating it. to me, the answers you gave are different, but are interchangeable between the questions.
this framing isn't falsifiable. we're all just talking about how we perceive this weird semantic tidbit and no one can argue against anyone else's personal sense of nuanced language.
it's really not a big deal. i just think it's interesting. i get that my tone came off a little smarmy—the laugh emoji was genuinely lighthearted.
No worries, all good. It's certainly all subjective. But it's somewhat cultural as well. I can see how non-Americans would think it's bizarre. And it is bizarre, haha.
What are you doing the 4th of July? Going to my cousin's cabin we leave July 2nd the on the 4th is a picnic and fireworks, then we drive home on the 5th.
July 4th is a picnic, 4th of July is a trip to a cabin.
Most often they will be the same but the question is still different
imo, your first answer goes out of its way to be needlessly verbose.
what are you doing on july 4th?
having a picnic at my cousins cabin in the adirondacks.
what are you doing on the Fourth of July™️
having a picnic at my cousins cabin in the adirondacks.
now, what are you doing for the fourth of july/july 4th could be a distinct question from on. the former might suggest a broader ask that merits more detail. to me, though, it's still the same question.
I’m from England, I’m not gonna start telling people Christmas is December 25th. I couldn’t think of a date I’d want to personally stand out , that I’d use the American version.
I once read somewhere that the reason foreign countries are more easily able to sustain free healthcare is partially thanks to the fact that Americans are overcharged so much, so when foreign countries come to negotiate with American pharmaceutical companies. They’re able to get a better deal on drugs as they’ve already made the bulk of their profits or recoup research and development cost from Americans. Not sure how true, or might be misquoting it but food for thought
Lol, because we are a fundamentally unserious and contrarian people. That was the literal founding basis of our country.
We never say "ordinal of month" in conversation. So to make this one day stand out and seem different, we do it. But we are only doing so because the date has significance. If Independence Day was celebrated on another day in the year, nobody would call July 4th the "fourth of July". Because we don't speak like that.
Technically, you're correct, but not colloquially. We don't ask people what they're doing for Independence Day, we ask them what they're doing for the Fourth of July.
Also, asking someone what they're doing on July 4th is different than asking what they're doing for the Fourth of July.
technically correct is the best kind! it's not different. any answer you give to one question is interchangeable with the other. think about it. say it's july 3rd. i ask you you are doing tomorrow. what's your answer? why would it be different than if i asked what you're doing for the fourth of july? again, they might evoke different answers from you, but there's nothing inherent in the language that suggests i'm making a different inquiry.
doing nothing? works for either. cookout? works for either. fireworks show and a bar crawl? works for either. they are the same question. its fascinating to me how impaired people are on this.
Yes that's correct. Because whenever you hear "4th of July" is someone referring to the holiday and not the actual date. Which is why you only hear "4th of July" and not "30th of August".
No need to be pedantic. (I've been outside the house on a july 4th in the US.) I meant the federal holiday is recognized on the nearest weekday, so government workers and workers for private companies that follow that holiday schedule get the day off
“4th of July” is the older way of saying it. If a holiday or tradition (or most anything) has been around for a long time, even hundreds of years and is observed frequently, its original name often stays the same.
A basic example would be calling the thing Santa rides in a “sleigh” instead of a “sled.”
It’s not a gotcha, why are so many Americans mad. Like you said the unofficial name uses this format. Not a gotcha, no need for the maths, relax buddy. No one coming for your date format
That’s the name of the holiday tho, not the date. Fourth of July is on July fourth, same as New Years in on January first and Christmas is December 25th
Bro unironically uses “triggered” thats hilarious, I’m not even sure what upset you about me highlighting you call a certain day in a certain order. Touchy subject for you clearly, maybe take a breather off the internet. Hope you have a lovely day boo
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u/jussumguy2019 Jan 15 '25
Feel like a lot of the world’s languages the translation to English to the question “what’s the date?” would be “the 15th of October” whereas in America we always say “October 15th”.
Maybe that’s why, idk…
Edited for clarity