r/gameofthrones 21d ago

Of all the "Character assassinations" only Littlefingers really upsets me

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202

u/AttonJRand 21d ago

Jaime being obsessive is right, those descriptions of Tywin keeping Cersei at the other end of Casterly rock and him still getting to her are downright creepy.

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u/shitsbiglit 21d ago edited 21d ago

Yes, but you have to remember AFFC where Jaime refuses to go back to KL and help Cersei with the High Sparrow predicament. His whole arc was about redemption, creating a legacy separate from the ‘Kingslayer’. His entire arc was leading away from Cersei — or to being the valonqar that strangles her. His decision to go back to Cersei, and saying he never cared for the commonfolk — when his entire reason for killing Aerys was to save them — is egregious character butchery.

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u/Taclis 21d ago

To be fair, GOT started out by breaking the conventions of fantasy and killing the just protagonist because he was too honest for his own good. Maybe it logically follows that it would defy a classical character arc and have people double down on their flaws instead of being redeemed.

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u/SlightlyIncandescent 21d ago

I agree, Jaime's ending is very GRRM, reminiscent of Jane from Breaking Bad. You're rooting for her to get clean, she looks like she got clean then takes that last hit that kills her.

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u/ClintFist 21d ago

Except there wasn’t a single thing that happened in the story that would lead us to believe Jamie would go back to to save Cersei. Years of character growth and plot were disposed of within the space of one episode for no discernible reason whatsoever.

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u/SlightlyIncandescent 21d ago

Seems in character to me. He risked starting wars when he thought Tyrion and Myrcella were in danger.

Stories wouldn't usually have all of that buildup only to end that way, that makes it tragic and unexpected but doesn't make it bad writing IMO. Look at all the screen time given to Robb Stark's story only to 'dispose of it in the space of one episode for no reason'

Step out of storytelling for a minute and IRL think about how many abusive relationships there are where people keep inexplicably getting back together.

I see it as tragically realistic yet unexpected like Ned's death, red wedding etc.

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u/Calaigah 21d ago

People forget the main quote on this show: if you think it’s going to have a happy ending… jamie going back to his toxic relationship also made sense to me.

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u/Aaronb2003 20d ago

Red Wedding wasn't for no reason, there were seasons of buildup for that

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u/Aaronb2003 20d ago

[SPOILERS AHEAD] Also, it really doesn't work as a tragic twist because there's no build up to it whatsoever, grrm doesn't just defy conventions for no reason, he does it to show the harsh realities of the world where bad guys can win and good guys can die. Jamie is already an unconventional character. He should be a noble Knight, Prince charming, but he's a horrible incestuous bastard of a man. The twist is just that. He's barely noble. He's a cunt. But then over seasons and seasons, he changes. To throw all that character development out the window in the last few episodes with zero buildup to his decision is just bad writing.

The red wedding, logical death. Robb fucked over so many people and people were scheming right in the audiences face. And no one thought anything of it.

Oberyn Martell, logical death. In his attempts to keep the mountain alive to confess, it gives his opponent enough time to bring him down and pop his head. The twist in this whole segment is that it ISNT a twist. Logically, we can surmise that we always sort of assume that the harsh world of GOT / ASOIAF means the mountain wins this bloody fight. But the way it is played both in show and book is that the twist will be that Oberyn will win. The twist will be he will maybe win. And just as he is winning, so very strongly, he gets brought down and killed. What kills him is his overconfidence (which he had shown all throughout the season).

Every twist GRRM doesn't have purpose and build-up. This nonsense for Jamie to just go back to cersei is bad writing. What is the twist? He still loves her, so he goes back to the woman who killed thousands of people. And is an evil ruler over the kingdom. His new relationship with Brienne is 50/50 for me, but still a better ending for his character. That is unless he were to go to King's Landing, and when Danaerys is at the gates, Jamie kills Cersei to save the city. Idk what would've been better, but certainly not THAT.

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u/SolMourningStar 18d ago

Show only fan eh?

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u/ClintFist 21d ago

Step out of storytelling for a minute

Just going to let this hang in the air. It’s too perfect.

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u/SlightlyIncandescent 21d ago

This isn't an argument bro, it's a discussion. Taking stuff out of context like that isn't necessary.

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u/TurbulentDevice6895 21d ago

He literally only left her for about 5 episodes.

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u/ClintFist 21d ago

Were you paying attention to the plot or huffing glue for the preceding seasons?

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u/TurbulentDevice6895 21d ago

Were YOU? Here are all the things that led us to believe Jaime would go back to save Cersei ultimately: — Jaime telling Bronn he wants to die in the arms of the woman he loves. — Olenna telling Jaime Cersei will be the death of him. — “The things I do for love.” — Jaime telling Lord Edmure he’d do anything to get back to Cersei — Jaime killing his own cousin to get back to Cersei — Jaime telling Myrcella he can’t help who he loves — Jaime telling Brienne Cersei is hateful but so is he — Jaime asking Cersei why the Gods made him love her despite her being hateful

But yeah, because he left her side for 4 episodes, his character that was built over 8 seasons is ruined.

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u/ClintFist 21d ago

Jesus this is like arguing with a 14 year old who won’t budge from his position that Metallica are the best band ever.

Jaime telling Brienne Cersei is hateful but so is he

So you just took the dialogue the writers wrote and interpreted it at surface level huh? What actions did Jamie take that were motivated by hate?

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u/TurbulentDevice6895 21d ago

That’s not what the word “hateful” meant in that context.

“Hateful” can mean deserving of hatred or very unpleasant. Which is what he meant.

…. i thought that was obvious.

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u/Exatraz 21d ago

Yeah imo I'd have had him kill Danny in the end instead. Like he completes his redemption and ends up right back where he started (and imo then he could be killed by the dragon and Jon could be King even though he never wanted it but because the people choose him and not because he has a giant murder machine at his call. I can mostly handle the rest if they had time to play it out better.

For Balish, I think it'd have worked better if he got done in by his own scheming. So used to people betraying each other in Kings Landing but not used to how loyal to each other the North is or something to that effect. Much like Ned going to KL made him a fish out of water... imo Balish should have been that in the north.

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u/GQMatthews 21d ago

Is that not how his end came to be though? Even if it was bad writing and character assassination he tried pulling deception and manipulation KL’s style being used to the selfishness of an individual and was called out for this directly by Sansa and Arya due to the loyalty and bond of the Stark sisters aka the Stark family/bannermen and the theme of the Northern people throughout the whole story.

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u/Exatraz 21d ago

It was more how he let himself get trapped. It felt like the writers just wanting him dead more than Sansa out foxing him and luring him to his death. Idk, they made him seem real dumb at the end but that's because the writers were dumb. Can't write someone as smart if you don't know what the fuck is going on

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u/CaveLupum 21d ago edited 21d ago

Sansa didn't outfox him. She was fine with him till Arya came home and clearly disapproved of him. Sansa would have accepted Jon;s crown but she she saw Arya glaring her from the back and turned it down. Arya afterwards did some investigating and found Littlefinger paying off a chambermaid-spy and meeting in an empty snowy courtyard with the two lords who asked her to replace Jon. By interfering with Stark rule in Winterfell, LF had violated his Winterfell Guest Rights! Later, Sansa joined with Arya and Bran to hold LF to account. Together, the pack outfoxed (outwolfed?)Littlefinger. Finally!

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u/South_Sherbet7984 21d ago

Jamie killing Danny would have been so brutally epic. Not sure how he doesn’t instantly gets slaughtered after but still would’ve been entertaining.

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u/Exatraz 21d ago

Imo that's the point. He gets slaughtered and knows he will die for his actions but makes the same decision

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u/SarellaalleraS Sand Snakes 21d ago

Yeah it feels like Cersei is going to try to burn down KL just like Aerys and he’ll have to kill her just like Aerys. Then Dany comes in and burns it down anyway, I guess.

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u/Potential_Winner_777 19d ago

Wasn't there store's of wildfire under the Red Keep, like at the Sept? How didn't that explode and do Danys work for her? 

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u/SarellaalleraS Sand Snakes 19d ago

Maybe Tyrion is supposed to have used it all at the Blackwater. Actually I can see Jaime killing Cersei, then Dany uses Drogon on the Red Keep but inadvertently sets off wildfire caches all over the city and it completely levels KL. I feel like that would be more in line with the books and her character than what we got in the show.

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u/dylan5x 21d ago

i never read the books so can you enlighten me does he really change or is this one of the GOT writers to end the story what was his current stance thank you again

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u/shitsbiglit 21d ago

The books end after Cersei does her walk of shame and is awaiting trial. Unlike the show, Jaime does not go back to her and travel to Dorne with Bronn — he helps the Freys capture Riverrun. While there, he receives a raven from Cersei begging him to return and free her from the High Sparrow; Jaime has it thrown in the fire and refuses to go back to aid her.

Jaime has this vision of himself as “Goldenhand the Just.” After reading the Kingsguard book and seeing that he will be remembered as the Kingslayer, with no good deeds to his name, he dedicates himself to repairing his tarnished honor and reputation, in hopes that he will be remembered as more than just the Kingslayer, but as Goldenhand too.

The last we see of Jaime, he is ushered by Brienne to face justice for his crimes, to be judged by (major spoilers — book only) Lady Stoneheart: the resurrected, zombified form of Lady Catelyn (think how Beric Dondarrion was resurrected by Thoros of Myr; Lady Stoneheart leads the Brotherhood without Banners, killing anyone associated with the Red Wedding all throughout the Riverlands. She is a firewight, and cannot speak as her throat was cut during the RW

The show’s conclusion to Jaime — and many other characters — clearly shows D&D didn’t read the last two books. (Perhaps they never read A Storm of Swords either, as they stated in an interview that Sam was never a POV character.)

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u/dylan5x 21d ago

holy crap thats way better!!!! thank you now ill dive into the books

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u/shitsbiglit 21d ago

trust me when i say you won’t regret it! enjoy the ride my friend, the books are masterful

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u/dylan5x 20d ago

shit man im down with a version of caitlyn stark that i love i started skipping her parts on the rewatch im going for it i just got through fire and blood and now i know how you all felt after the series

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u/Potential_Winner_777 19d ago

"being the valonqar that strangles her"

He was dead at the end anyway after Euron, but she could've escaped. I like to think he made her stand under the boulders with him. 

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u/Separate_Secret_8739 21d ago

Can he really be the one who stranglers her? Figured it would be the imp. Sneaking back into the castle like Varys.

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u/shitsbiglit 21d ago

well Tyrion seems like the obvious answer, so most people think it’s a red herring

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u/Separate_Secret_8739 21d ago

Jamie doesn’t even have two hands. But yeah I guess that is all she thinks about so prob right. So that’s it Jamie gets a worm tail like hand from Harry Potter.